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Author Topic:   Evolution or Devolution?
Loudmouth
Inactive Member


Message 2 of 80 (188153)
02-24-2005 1:43 PM
Reply to: Message 1 by Donald Thomas
02-24-2005 1:19 PM


From Kramer:
It is complete lunacy to have an entropic force that is busy dismantling atoms, from prior ordered states into greater and greater states of randomness and chaos with time (the Second Law Of Thermodynamics) and at the same time claim that all things are going from good to better, through a series of fortuitous accidents. It is our vanity that does not allow us to see the TRUTH and that is IT IS ALL ONE WAY -DOWN. Everything rots. We rot the moment we are conceived. It is a cast iron standard bearer basic law of biology, in the Universe of Parts. Our Universe.
The problem is that this downward spiral can be thwarted by the input of energy. The second law says that WITHOUT THE INPUT OF ENERGY, things will become the same temperature, on average. Even without the input of energy entropy can still decrease within the system, or rather temperature differences can sporadically increase in one area even if the whole system is moving towards entropic "death".
The fact remains that the earth recieves large amounts of energy from the sun. This energy allows life to create complex biomolecules that carry energy, fully allowed since the increase in entropy of the sun far outweighs the decrease of entropy on earth. This is the fact that Kramer either misses or ignores, that entropy can decrease if energy is inputted into a system. Devolution is not required by the second law of thermodynamics. If our sun stops putting out energy then evolution will cease, as will life for that matter.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1 by Donald Thomas, posted 02-24-2005 1:19 PM Donald Thomas has not replied

Loudmouth
Inactive Member


Message 9 of 80 (188207)
02-24-2005 5:10 PM
Reply to: Message 4 by PaulK
02-24-2005 2:28 PM


quote:
Moreover he fails to take into account that it is reproduction rather than evolution as such which deals with the actual entropy decreases.
I think that hits the nail on the head. More specifically, the growth of a multicellular organism from a single celled zygote "violates" the 2LoT as well. So I guess we should be losing cells generation after generation?
Evolution, as compared to cellular replication, occurs through changes in DNA sequences. The entropy of any 100 base sequence of DNA is equal. The entropy of any stretch of equidistant DNA is equal. Therefore, changes in that DNA molecule does not infringe upon decreases or increases in entropy. This is the way I always look at it.
This message has been edited by Loudmouth, 02-24-2005 17:11 AM

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 Message 4 by PaulK, posted 02-24-2005 2:28 PM PaulK has not replied

Loudmouth
Inactive Member


Message 79 of 80 (189783)
03-03-2005 12:45 PM
Reply to: Message 77 by Doc Bonz
03-03-2005 12:15 PM


Re: Neandertals
quote:
Thus it will all eventually comply with the 2LOT and all regions of the universe will be affected including my house which appears to fall into a complete state of disorder compared to other regions very quickly for some reason!
Have you actually read any of the posts? I and others have repeatedly said that the common usage of "disorder" is different than the specific connotation within thermodynamics. A messy room or a house that falls apart are not consequences of the laws of thermodynamics. The direction of evolution is not governed by the laws of thermodynamics. The evolution of intelligence does not violate any law of thermodynamics. A decrease in intelligence is not an increase in entropy. If you think it is, please explain why.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 77 by Doc Bonz, posted 03-03-2005 12:15 PM Doc Bonz has not replied

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