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Author Topic:   Evolution or Devolution?
crashfrog
Member (Idle past 1494 days)
Posts: 19762
From: Silver Spring, MD
Joined: 03-20-2003


Message 5 of 80 (188186)
02-24-2005 3:52 PM
Reply to: Message 1 by Donald Thomas
02-24-2005 1:19 PM


It is his contention that within a universe subject to the second law of thermodynamics (which states that all atomic states become more and more chaotic with time, through a process known as the ‘entropic drift’) the concept that the underbase of living systems is one of evolution to states of betterment is nonsensical:
I don't think it's clear in the least what ordered atomic states have to do with the descent of organisms with modification. Certainly evolutionary change is a "change to states of betterment" only in the loosest possible sense, and certainly not in any sense relevant to atomic states.
I'm sorry but I simply don't see the relevance of the second law to the discussion. Evolution does not proceed by ordering atomic states, but by natural selection and random mutation.
The book cites as contradictions to evolutionary theory the facts that approximately 95% of the human genome is redundant
It's not redundant, it's simply not expressed as proteins. Its presence is not contradictory to evolution; in fact, it's quite consistent with expectations.
and that roughly the same percentage of the human brain is also dormant.
This has never been shown to be true, except when literally true in the case of persons with near-total brain injury.
He accepts that evolutionary processes do take place but only within the context of the overall drift of devolution, evolution within devolution.
This is not consistent with the fossil record, which is a record of the expanding diversity of living things in both directions of complexity over time. Up and down.
Central to Kerner’s thesis in The Song of the Greys is the influence of grey aliens and their tinkering with the human genome as a primary factor in the development of our human species.
How does he know that they're grey? It seems like he's conflating evolutionry misunderstandings with alien abduction claims, none of which have ever been substantiated, and most of which are mutually contradicting.
I have read it and re-read it and cannot fault its logic.
How hard did you try? It seriously took me only like 2 minutes.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1 by Donald Thomas, posted 02-24-2005 1:19 PM Donald Thomas has not replied

crashfrog
Member (Idle past 1494 days)
Posts: 19762
From: Silver Spring, MD
Joined: 03-20-2003


Message 17 of 80 (188735)
02-26-2005 4:00 PM
Reply to: Message 14 by Dr. Silverman
02-26-2005 1:23 PM


Kerner has defined the second law of thermodynamics as the tendency for ordered states to give rise to progressively more disordered states with time.
Evolution doesn't contradict that, because in the simplest case of evolution, where an organism gives rise to improved offspring, that's two different systems (the parent and the offspring). That's not one state turning into a more ordered state, or one system's entropy decreasing.
The order of states has no relevance to the evolution of organisms.
Indeed natural selection may well be one of the strongest driving forces of devolution.
This is impossible. Overall, the action of selective forces in the presence of reproduction with variation ("mutation") leads to evolution, not devolution.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 14 by Dr. Silverman, posted 02-26-2005 1:23 PM Dr. Silverman has not replied

crashfrog
Member (Idle past 1494 days)
Posts: 19762
From: Silver Spring, MD
Joined: 03-20-2003


Message 23 of 80 (188844)
02-27-2005 2:50 AM
Reply to: Message 18 by Dr. Silverman
02-26-2005 5:56 PM


Re: Houses and claims
My first point was about thermodynamics and about the postulation that in a universe where everything moves from order into greater states of chaos that it would seem unlikely that any given number of apes would eventually give rise spontaneously through gradual mutations to a Shakespeare or a Gandhi.
On what basis do you conclude that Shakespeare represents a more ordered atomic state than an ape? That's not at all obvious to me, nor to anyone familiar with the subject.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 18 by Dr. Silverman, posted 02-26-2005 5:56 PM Dr. Silverman has not replied

crashfrog
Member (Idle past 1494 days)
Posts: 19762
From: Silver Spring, MD
Joined: 03-20-2003


Message 46 of 80 (189089)
02-28-2005 12:34 AM
Reply to: Message 41 by Dr. Silverman
02-27-2005 3:37 PM


For the record I do agree with Kerner that a spontaneous "positive" direction for evolution of man from small brained creatures is absurd.
Why? Why would a larger brain represent a more ordered state?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 41 by Dr. Silverman, posted 02-27-2005 3:37 PM Dr. Silverman has not replied

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