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Author Topic:   The Flood - Animals and their minimum food requirement
ReverendDG
Member (Idle past 2431 days)
Posts: 1119
From: Topeka,kansas
Joined: 06-06-2005


Message 226 of 239 (347185)
09-07-2006 1:18 AM
Reply to: Message 224 by obvious Child
09-07-2006 1:04 AM


Re: Dino's you say?
how does a cube shaped ship survive huge broadside waves?

magic?

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obvious Child
Member (Idle past 2437 days)
Posts: 661
Joined: 08-17-2006


Message 227 of 239 (347205)
09-07-2006 3:12 AM
Reply to: Message 225 by Archer Opteryx
09-07-2006 1:16 AM


Re: Dino's you say?
Correction, you mean magical, legendary ships!

Many conventional ships designed to take broadsides go down in large storms.

Mental backflips of biblical porportions!


This message is a reply to:
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Archer Opteryx
Member (Idle past 1919 days)
Posts: 1811
From: East Asia
Joined: 08-16-2006


Message 228 of 239 (347267)
09-07-2006 11:32 AM
Reply to: Message 227 by obvious Child
09-07-2006 3:12 AM


nice cube
Those who take the Genesis flood story literally sometimes point to the impracticality of Utnapishtim's cube-shaped ark. They say that, because the dimensions of the Genesis ark are much more credible than those of the Sumerian ark, Noah's story must be the 'true' one while Utnapishtim's story is obviously fanciful.

.

Edited by Archer Opterix, : Clarity.


Archer

All species are transitional.


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Taz
Member (Idle past 1613 days)
Posts: 5069
From: Zerus
Joined: 07-18-2006


Message 229 of 239 (347277)
09-07-2006 12:11 PM
Reply to: Message 223 by kuresu
09-06-2006 7:56 PM


Re: Dino's you say?
kuresu writes:

But, as you well know, how can we fit all the food and water on the ark?


This has already been solved by Faith. All the animal went into some sort of hibernation, much like the vampire elders in the movie Underworld.

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ReverendDG
Member (Idle past 2431 days)
Posts: 1119
From: Topeka,kansas
Joined: 06-06-2005


Message 230 of 239 (347302)
09-07-2006 2:14 PM
Reply to: Message 228 by Archer Opteryx
09-07-2006 11:32 AM


Re: nice cube
Those who take the Genesis flood story literally sometimes point to the impracticality of Utnapishtim's cube-shaped ark. They say that, because the dimensions of the Genesis ark are much more credible than those of the Sumerian ark, Noah's story must be the 'true' one while Utnapishtim's story is obviously fanciful.

hmm havn't heard that one before, of course i wouldn't put it past people. but i have to say people that do this make themselves look even stupider by arguing this, i mean come on? claiming their myth is right because another is even less realistic?
no one expects anyone to believe the utnapishtim story would work anymore than the noah one works, well people who arn't promoting it as the truth arn't

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kuresu
Member (Idle past 834 days)
Posts: 2544
From: boulder, colorado
Joined: 03-24-2006


Message 231 of 239 (347303)
09-07-2006 2:26 PM
Reply to: Message 230 by ReverendDG
09-07-2006 2:14 PM


Re: nice cube
not only that--they got it ass backwards.

The flood in the epic of gilgamesh is actually more credible--it rained for seven days, and less than a month later, the waters have receded. Much easier to store food, plus, if I recall correctly, it was bigger than the ark--being seven stories and all.

ehh--both are false, but they really screwed up when they took the flood myth and then made it really impossible.


All a man's knowledge comes from his experiences

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Archer Opteryx
Member (Idle past 1919 days)
Posts: 1811
From: East Asia
Joined: 08-16-2006


Message 232 of 239 (347361)
09-07-2006 7:43 PM
Reply to: Message 230 by ReverendDG
09-07-2006 2:14 PM


Re: nice cube
ReverendDG:

[....] i mean come on? claiming their myth is right because another is even less realistic?
no one expects anyone to believe the utnapishtim story would work anymore than the noah one works, well people who arn't promoting it as the truth arn't

Both flood stories should be presented in schools, don't you think?

Teach the controversy. ;)

AO
_

Edited by Archer Opterix, : Clarity.


Archer

All species are transitional.


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johnfolton 
Suspended Member (Idle past 3912 days)
Posts: 2024
Joined: 12-04-2005


Message 233 of 239 (347434)
09-07-2006 11:27 PM
Reply to: Message 227 by obvious Child
09-07-2006 3:12 AM


Re: Dino's you say? Pterosaurs Flew in Noahs Day
Many conventional ships designed to take broadsides go down in large storms.

The reason being they didn't get their sea anchors out it time. Noah built his boat pitched within and without which sealed the boat but also being hard deflected waves.

This is one major reason why they used pitch before steel or fiberglass became available to deflects the wave energies around a boat.

Noah would of had sea anchors because he would of been fully aware of his need for a sea anchor. It was not like there were no boats in Noahs days and his need to keep the keel straight.

We too must not be (ignorant of the fact) that Noah had steel and brass technologies in his day. The bible does not lie, it says it like it was, it took thousands of years after Noahs day for man to figure out how to smelt iron.

The creationists water canopy would of pressed down excessively creating much greater atmopheric pressures in Noahs day (Pterosaurs were able to fly in Noahs day) with existing air pressure they would not beable to fly in our day(http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pterosaur).

This all likely has some bearing on it being near impossible to smelt iron after the flood using the same technologies that (Tubal-Cain in kjv Genesis 4:22) used before the flood (water canopy came down from above. The creationists water canopy is expressed clearly by their interpretion of: (kjv Genesis 1:6 and kjv Genesis 1:20).

It took thousands of years after the flood before anyone else figured out how to smelt iron from ore.

Noah had iron and brass to reinforce his boat and was told by God to compartmentalize his boat which only further strengthened his boat.

Its believed that gopher wood is not a special tree but a process of layering woods to increase their strength. This process is what builder today are using to increase strength and use less lumber in the building industry.

Edited by johnfolton, : No reason given.

Edited by johnfolton, : No reason given.


KJV Romans 1:20 For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even his eternal power and Godhead; so that they are without excuse:

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MUTTY6969
Member (Idle past 4512 days)
Posts: 65
From: ARIZONA
Joined: 05-20-2006


Message 234 of 239 (347515)
09-08-2006 7:59 AM
Reply to: Message 233 by johnfolton
09-07-2006 11:27 PM


Re: Dino's you say? Pterosaurs Flew in Noahs Day
In the wiki article you reference on Pterosaurs where do you get the interpretation that
quote:
with existing air pressure they would not be able to fly in our day.

The wiki article that you reference states “Pterosaur wings were formed by membranes of skin and other tissues”, “much the same as modern bats and flying squirrels”. So where you get this difference in atmospheric pressure from just 4500 years ago is kinda puzzling, especially since your own reference states that the Pterosaurs had hollow bones filled with air, much the same as modern birds…did you even bother to read your source before posting it?


Steve Rushin: "By the age of 18, the average American has witnessed 200,000 acts of violence on television, most of them occurring during Game 1 of the NHL playoff series."

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johnfolton 
Suspended Member (Idle past 3912 days)
Posts: 2024
Joined: 12-04-2005


Message 235 of 239 (347545)
09-08-2006 11:52 AM
Reply to: Message 234 by MUTTY6969
09-08-2006 7:59 AM


Re: Dino's you say? Pterosaurs Flew in Noahs Day
It appears some Pterosaurs are are believed to be flying even onto this day, but most died by dragon slayers, farmers, even cowboys killing modern day Pterosaurs in .

Thanks for proving me wrong in this one point, it appears 160 feet wingspans, 92 feet long and 4 feet wide has been documented to of of flown only 100 years ago.

The article says: On April 26, 1890 the Tombstone Epitaph (a local Arizona newspaper) reported that two cowboys had discovered and shot down a creature - described as a "winged dragon" The paper’s description of the animal fits the Quetzelcoatlus, whose fossils were found in nearby Texas. I do find this all interesting, thanks for bringing it to our attention that they could of survived and flown in our lesser atmospheric pressures.

It just seems hard to believe that a creature with a wingspan of 160 feet with leathery wings could fly, but its hollow bones agrees with documented articles that these prehistoric animals are actually not prehistoric but a part of our history.

It all goes well with the other documented articles of dragons surviving after the flood were simply different kinds of reptiles that survived the flood. Most would of been destroyed by the flood but some survived apart from the fossil record, which is quite interesting cause it support the creationists premise they survived aboard Noahs ark.

Good Post btw :)

http://www.genesispark.org/genpark/konga/konga.htm

E "KONGAMATO" OF AFRICA
Deep in the Kenyan bush of East Africa, lives a beaked, flying creature called the Kongamato. This fascinating animal first received widespread attention when explorer Frank Welland described it in his 1932 book In Witchbound Africa. The Kongamato ("overwhelmer of boats"), is described as a large, reddish creature with leathery wings, devoid of feathers. Eyewitnesses who are shown an illustration of the pterodactyl unanimously agreed to this identification of the Kongamato. "The evidence for the pterodactyl is that the natives can describe it so accurately, unprompted, and that they all agree about it. There is negative support also in the fact that they said they could not identify any other of the prehistoric monsters which I showed them...The natives do not consider it to be an unnatural thing like a mulombe [demon] only a very awful thing, like a man-eating lion or a rogue elephant, but infinitely worse... I have mentioned the Jiundu swamp [northwestern Zambia] as one of the reputed haunts of the kongamato, and I must say that the place itself is the very kind of place in which such a reptile might exist, if it is possible anywhere." (Welland, 1932, pp. 238, 240.)

http://www.genesispark.com/genpark/history/history.htm

Reliable sightings of "flying dragons" (pterosaur-like creature) in Europe are recorded as recently as 1649. (Thorpe, B. Ed., The Anglo Saxon Chronicle, 1861, p.48) "The woods around Penllin Castle, Glamorgan, had the reputation of being frequented by winged serpents, and these were the terror of old and young alike.

On April 26, 1890 the Tombstone Epitaph (a local Arizona newspaper) reported that two cowboys had discovered and shot down a creature - described as a "winged dragon" - which resembled a pterodactyl, only MUCH larger. The cowboys said its wingspan was 160 feet, and that its body was more than four feet wide and 92 feet long. The cowboys supposedly cut off the end of the wing to prove the existence of the creature. The paper’s description of the animal fits the Quetzelcoatlus, whose fossils were found in Texas. (Gish, Dinosaurs by Design, 1992, p. 16.) Could this be thunderbird or Wakinyan, the jagged-winged, fierce-toothed flying creature of Sioux American Indian legend? This thunderbird supposedly lived in a cave on the top of the Olympic Mountains and feasted on seafood. Different from the eagle (Wanbli) or hawk (Cetan) the Wakinyan was said to be huge, carrying off children, and was named because of its association with thunder and lightning--supposedly being struck by lightning and seen to fall to the ground during a storm. (Geis, Darlene, Dinosaurs & Other Prehistoric Animals, 1959, p. 9.) It was further distinguished by its piercing cry and thunderous beating wings (Lame Deer’s 1969 interview).


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AdminNosy
Administrator
Posts: 4754
From: Vancouver, BC, Canada
Joined: 11-11-2003


Message 236 of 239 (347554)
09-08-2006 1:14 PM
Reply to: Message 235 by johnfolton
09-08-2006 11:52 AM


Whatever Suspended for not following the thread topic
Totally off topic.

A 12 hour suspension until you get a chance to figure out what the topic is.

Edited by AdminNosy, : Change author


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obvious Child
Member (Idle past 2437 days)
Posts: 661
Joined: 08-17-2006


Message 237 of 239 (347864)
09-09-2006 9:53 PM
Reply to: Message 233 by johnfolton
09-07-2006 11:27 PM


Re: Dino's you say? Pterosaurs Flew in Noahs Day
Nothing you wrote about is relevant to preventing broadsides. The shape of a ship is what is relevenat, not it specific construction. Conventional ships turn into a wave to prevent a broadside. You can't do that with a cube ship.

Edited by obvious Child, : No reason given.


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Vacate
Member (Idle past 2922 days)
Posts: 565
Joined: 10-01-2006


Message 238 of 239 (353443)
10-01-2006 11:26 AM
Reply to: Message 1 by CK
06-27-2006 5:43 AM


Hello everyone,

I stumbled on this site and the first thread I read in detail was this one. Though off topic at times, it has still been a great read regarding the many issues of Noahs ark.

I have a few ideas that came up during my reading of this thread and would like to see if they might be addressed. The OP started with the food requirements needed on the ark. Following are a few ideas that loosely follow that basis - I just see it as much more that food and water.

1 - How did Noah keep alive the many forms of deadly virus and bacteria species during the one year on the ark? Many of these cannot live without a host, did Noah also provide the host "food" for deadly bacteria and/or viruses? Though I can't name, for sure, an example I am sure there are viruses that kill the host in less than a year (Ebola comes to mind). Two options I can see are to have many hosts or safely contain the species in a lab setting to release once populations have increased post flood. Both options make little sense.

2 - Many of the organisms have shorter lifespans than the duration of the flood scenario. Insects especially do not often live a full year. This requires Noah to also have had a breeding program on the ark, or a lab setting to save the DNA for later reintroduction.

3 - Genesis 7:20 "Fifteen cubits upward did the waters prevail; and the mountains were covered". The oceans salt content is incredibly important to the discussion. In a salty ocean environment - fresh water species must be included on the ark or all freshwater species would not exist in present day. A counter idea presented is that the oceans did NOT contain saltwater during the time of Noah. I ask two questions then - did all saltwater animals evolve from freshwater animals? Secondly , why do we have multiple saltbeds in the Earth if not for ancient seafloors - How can this be if ancient oceans did not have salt?

4 - How is it that the Earths animals all survived on one ark that presumably had a universal temperature? Penguins, polar bears, kangaroos, and camels all coexisted in one temperature range? There are hundreds of examples where animals will die due to the change in temperature by being removed from their environment.

5 - Most plants cannot live being submerged in water for a year. The fact that "organisms" require plants, and plants require "organisms" to survive nessesitates that Noah also have live plants on the ark. The simplest example would be a bee needing flowers and vice versa. ( Rain forests contain amazing examples of interdependant species )If one includes these examples, many that scientists have yet to discover, would this not fill Noahs mini-ark ?

Fishtanks, labs, airconditioners, greenhouses, and a supercomputer to keep track of it all?

"and Noah only remained alive, and they that were with him in the ark."

Badly worded perhaps, but I have been awake all night and in dire need of sleep :P


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nwr
Member
Posts: 5587
From: Geneva, Illinois
Joined: 08-08-2005


Message 239 of 239 (353450)
10-01-2006 11:47 AM
Reply to: Message 238 by Vacate
10-01-2006 11:26 AM


Fishtanks, labs, airconditioners, greenhouses, and a supercomputer to keep track of it all?

Evidently there was a lot of modern refrigration and other equipment on the ark. It is strange that the text fails to mention this.

Badly worded perhaps, but I have been awake all night and in dire need of sleep

Does worry about the tooth fairy, or about Santa also keep you awake at night?

By the way, welcome to evcforum.


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