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Author Topic:   Fred Williams goes down in flames... again
joz
Inactive Member


Message 16 of 42 (5267)
02-21-2002 10:12 PM
Reply to: Message 14 by John Paul
02-21-2002 9:28 PM


quote:
Originally posted by John Paul:
And yes I am dangerous. I have a free and open mind. My search for the truth, which is what science is all about, will not be constrained by the narrow vision of materialistic naturalism.

Damm the tactic of selective quotation is a real habit former isn`t it, you forgot the bit about ".....but by a 2,000 year old religious text the veracity of which is assumed in an act of blind faith" that should go on the end......


This message is a reply to:
 Message 14 by John Paul, posted 02-21-2002 9:28 PM John Paul has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 17 by John Paul, posted 02-22-2002 8:18 AM joz has responded

  
John Paul
Inactive Member


Message 17 of 42 (5287)
02-22-2002 8:18 AM
Reply to: Message 16 by joz
02-21-2002 10:12 PM


quote:
Originally posted by joz:
Damm the tactic of selective quotation is a real habit former isn`t it, you forgot the bit about ".....but by a 2,000 year old religious text the veracity of which is assumed in an act of blind faith" that should go on the end......

John Paul:
First, Genesis is more than 2,000 years old. Second, my faith isn't blind. Third, I am not a Christian or a fundamentalist. Go figure.

John Paul

------------------
John Paul


This message is a reply to:
 Message 16 by joz, posted 02-21-2002 10:12 PM joz has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 18 by joz, posted 02-22-2002 4:26 PM John Paul has not yet responded

  
joz
Inactive Member


Message 18 of 42 (5301)
02-22-2002 4:26 PM
Reply to: Message 17 by John Paul
02-22-2002 8:18 AM


quote:
Originally posted by John Paul:
John Paul:
First, Genesis is more than 2,000 years old. Second, my faith isn't blind. Third, I am not a Christian or a fundamentalist. Go figure.

John Paul


So you don`t put any credence in the new testament then?

What else do you call a position that is adopted against the bulk of the evidence, which attempts to introduce the supernatural to plug many gaps and has no positive evidence?

What are you then JP? The "my faith..." statement infers belief in some sort of supernatural power which one is it Jahweh, Allah, Ahura Mazda? Can`t be the God of the bible because you just said you aren`t a christian......


This message is a reply to:
 Message 17 by John Paul, posted 02-22-2002 8:18 AM John Paul has not yet responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 19 by Theo, posted 02-22-2002 8:38 PM joz has responded

  
Theo
Inactive Junior Member


Message 19 of 42 (5320)
02-22-2002 8:38 PM
Reply to: Message 18 by joz
02-22-2002 4:26 PM


Hey Joz,
When you claim their is no positive evidence for the Bible I have to challenge you. That simply isn't true. In fact there is nothing but evidence for the Bible if one doesn't presuppose it is false, approaches it with an open mind and reads both sides in an honest investigation. In Actuality, it is unreasonable, in light of the evidence to disbelieve the Bible. It is blind faith to disbelieve and reasoned faith to believe. Let me clarify a point briefly before anything else ensues. The Bible defines faith as the evidence of things unseen. Most secular humanist materialists assume it is the belief in things unproven which is false. In Greek, which the new testament is written in, faith is the noun form of the verb believe (a relationship with, to rely upon and trust in) which, meaning it is conduct inspired by belief which has a necessary reference to proof as compared to belief without a reference to proof which is merely a natural exercise of opinion. One has the grammer and the context for the definition.

I look forward to the jousting

------------------
theo


This message is a reply to:
 Message 18 by joz, posted 02-22-2002 4:26 PM joz has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 20 by mark24, posted 02-22-2002 8:49 PM Theo has not yet responded
 Message 21 by joz, posted 02-22-2002 9:25 PM Theo has not yet responded
 Message 25 by bretheweb, posted 02-24-2002 5:10 PM Theo has not yet responded

  
mark24
Member (Idle past 3484 days)
Posts: 3857
From: UK
Joined: 12-01-2001


Message 20 of 42 (5321)
02-22-2002 8:49 PM
Reply to: Message 19 by Theo
02-22-2002 8:38 PM


quote:
Originally posted by Theo:
Hey Joz,
When you claim their is no positive evidence for the Bible I have to challenge you. That simply isn't true. In fact there is nothing but evidence for the Bible if one doesn't presuppose it is false, approaches it with an open mind and reads both sides in an honest investigation. In Actuality, it is unreasonable, in light of the evidence to disbelieve the Bible. It is blind faith to disbelieve and reasoned faith to believe. Let me clarify a point briefly before anything else ensues. The Bible defines faith as the evidence of things unseen. Most secular humanist materialists assume it is the belief in things unproven which is false. In Greek, which the new testament is written in, faith is the noun form of the verb believe (a relationship with, to rely upon and trust in) which, meaning it is conduct inspired by belief which has a necessary reference to proof as compared to belief without a reference to proof which is merely a natural exercise of opinion. One has the grammer and the context for the definition.

I look forward to the jousting


Is there evidence, independant evidence, that is, of biblical divinity/supernaturality?

Showing the bible had a historical backdrop means little. Dr Zhivago, War & Peace, Kellys Heroes, would be true if that were the case, instead of stories. What allegedly sets the bible apart from those stories is God, the supernatural. This is the evidence you must provide.

Mark

------------------
Occam's razor is not for shaving with.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 19 by Theo, posted 02-22-2002 8:38 PM Theo has not yet responded

    
joz
Inactive Member


Message 21 of 42 (5324)
02-22-2002 9:25 PM
Reply to: Message 19 by Theo
02-22-2002 8:38 PM


quote:
Originally posted by Theo:
Hey Joz,
When you claim their is no positive evidence for the Bible I have to challenge you.

Sure theres positive evidence for the bible its a big heavy book that I`m looking across the room at as I type this.....

What theres no evidence for is the veracity of ALL its contents....

P.S The jousting can only start when you offer some possible evidence up......


This message is a reply to:
 Message 19 by Theo, posted 02-22-2002 8:38 PM Theo has not yet responded

  
derwood
Member (Idle past 165 days)
Posts: 1457
Joined: 12-27-2001


Message 22 of 42 (5410)
02-24-2002 3:36 PM


I fabricated nothing.

True, you did not write "This is so-and-so's address".

You did not need to.

It was apparent to everyone that read it what yu were doing - and of course who can forget the crack about 'not everyone drives through my town to go skiing'... Thinly veiled threats are thinly veiled threats.

But you are not worth worrying about and waasting time with on the internet.

Email me:

huxter4441@aol.com

and we can set up a meeting to work this all out.

As for the 'personal' thing with Fred, it is hard not to respond with flaming gibberish with an in-kind reply.

He is a post-and-runner now anyway, so there is nothing to worry about.


Replies to this message:
 Message 23 by John Paul, posted 02-24-2002 5:02 PM derwood has responded
 Message 26 by Percy, posted 02-24-2002 5:44 PM derwood has not yet responded

    
John Paul
Inactive Member


Message 23 of 42 (5414)
02-24-2002 5:02 PM
Reply to: Message 22 by derwood
02-24-2002 3:36 PM


SLP:
I fabricated nothing.

John Paul:
Most of what you posted was a fabrication or a misrepresentation. As far as I can tell that is what you do.

SLP:
True, you did not write "This is so-and-so's address".

John Paul:
Thanks for verifying what I said.

SLP:
You did not need to.

John Paul:
Is that why you had to go out of your way to point it out to that board's administrator(s)? You are a joke huxter. Like I said only you, myself and anyone who already knew that information would have known what it pertained to.

SLP:
It was apparent to everyone that read it what yu were doing

John Paul:
Obviously not.

SLP:
- and of course who can forget the crack about 'not everyone drives through my town to go skiing'...

John Paul:
How many times do we have to over this? Those are not my words.

SLP:
Thinly veiled threats are thinly veiled threats.

John Paul:
And you still don't know the difference between inferred and implied. Some phd you are.

Any alleged threat was inferred. If you weren't such an abusive prick perhaps you wouldn't be so paranoid.

------------------
John Paul


This message is a reply to:
 Message 22 by derwood, posted 02-24-2002 3:36 PM derwood has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 27 by derwood, posted 02-25-2002 10:23 AM John Paul has not yet responded

  
bretheweb
Inactive Member


Message 24 of 42 (5415)
02-24-2002 5:07 PM
Reply to: Message 13 by Percy
02-21-2002 4:58 PM


I've found this proggie very useful for OCR scanning.
Its web-based and free.
http://www.expervision.com/webtr6.htm

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WebOCR connects to ExperVision's free OCR server across the Internet. The resource-consuming recognition process is completely done by ExperVision's online server delivered to your desktop in real-time speed!. As long as you have an Internet connection, you can get scanned documents converted into electronic files within seconds with maximum reliability. WebOCR accepts color, grayscale and B/W images from either scanner or file. With an unparalleled recognition technology to support 2618 fonts, it can process documents of various fonts in English, French, German, Italian, Portuguese, Spanish, Dutch, Danish, and Swedish. Users can choose to output to various formats including MS Word, Excel or HTML."

Hope this helps.

brett

------------------
Faith in a delusional belief does not make that belief not delusional.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 13 by Percy, posted 02-21-2002 4:58 PM Percy has not yet responded

  
bretheweb
Inactive Member


Message 25 of 42 (5417)
02-24-2002 5:10 PM
Reply to: Message 19 by Theo
02-22-2002 8:38 PM


Please read "The Bible Unearthed" by Israel Finkelstein.

brett

------------------
Faith in a delusional belief does not make that belief not delusional.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 19 by Theo, posted 02-22-2002 8:38 PM Theo has not yet responded

  
Percy
Member
Posts: 18875
From: New Hampshire
Joined: 12-23-2000
Member Rating: 2.5


Message 26 of 42 (5421)
02-24-2002 5:44 PM
Reply to: Message 22 by derwood
02-24-2002 3:36 PM



SLP writes:
As for the 'personal' thing with Fred, it is hard not to respond with flaming gibberish with an in-kind reply.

If Fred's contributions are really flaming gibberish then is there really a need to dignify them with a response? Anyway, in composing a response to gibberish, replying "in-kind" can make it very difficult for other people to tell who is the raving lunatic

--Percy


This message is a reply to:
 Message 22 by derwood, posted 02-24-2002 3:36 PM derwood has not yet responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 29 by Mister Pamboli, posted 02-25-2002 10:46 AM Percy has not yet responded

    
derwood
Member (Idle past 165 days)
Posts: 1457
Joined: 12-27-2001


Message 27 of 42 (5460)
02-25-2002 10:23 AM
Reply to: Message 23 by John Paul
02-24-2002 5:02 PM


quote:
Originally posted by John Paul:
If you weren't such an abusive prick perhaps you wouldn't be so paranoid.


Email me

huxter4441@aol.com

and we can set up a meeting to work this all out.

I've grown quite tired of your rhetoric.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 23 by John Paul, posted 02-24-2002 5:02 PM John Paul has not yet responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 28 by joz, posted 02-25-2002 10:31 AM derwood has not yet responded

    
joz
Inactive Member


Message 28 of 42 (5461)
02-25-2002 10:31 AM
Reply to: Message 27 by derwood
02-25-2002 10:23 AM


quote:
Originally posted by SLP:
Email me

huxter4441@aol.com

and we can set up a meeting to work this all out.

I've grown quite tired of your rhetoric.


I hate to mention this but does anyone else get a certain pistols at dawn feeling about this meeting?


This message is a reply to:
 Message 27 by derwood, posted 02-25-2002 10:23 AM derwood has not yet responded

  
Mister Pamboli
Member (Idle past 5866 days)
Posts: 634
From: Washington, USA
Joined: 12-10-2001


Message 29 of 42 (5462)
02-25-2002 10:46 AM
Reply to: Message 26 by Percy
02-24-2002 5:44 PM


O I do like to start a Monday morning with a warm smug feeling of "I told you so!"

(see my original post 6)


This message is a reply to:
 Message 26 by Percy, posted 02-24-2002 5:44 PM Percy has not yet responded

  
Percy
Member
Posts: 18875
From: New Hampshire
Joined: 12-23-2000
Member Rating: 2.5


Message 30 of 42 (5464)
02-25-2002 11:24 AM


SLP and JP,

I think it's a good idea for you two to "meet" and attempt to reconcile your differences. I hope it works out, but please be aware that the next guidelines violation will earn the guilty party a 24-hour vacation.

--Percy


Replies to this message:
 Message 38 by derwood, posted 02-26-2002 12:30 PM Percy has not yet responded

    
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