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Author Topic:   YHWH, Yahweh, Jehovah, adonai, lord, elohim, god, allah, Allah thread.
John
Inactive Member


Message 20 of 298 (59851)
10-07-2003 1:33 AM
Reply to: Message 16 by Buzsaw
10-06-2003 6:13 PM


quote:
there is no proper name in the OT of elohim.
Berasit bara elohim... Recognize that, Buz? That is the part of the Bible, right at the beginning, that generally gets translated "In the beginning God... " It then goes on about heaven and earth and a garden. Elohim is used very frequently used to mean 'God.' Do you mean we should be translating all those occurances of 'God' with a little 'g'?
quote:
Now, if el, (short for elohim) is indeed that...
El is not short for elohim. El is the root word. It is common to all semitic languages and means, surprise, 'God'. It is derived from a word meaning something like 'strong.' Eloah is the singular in Hebrew. Elohim is the plural, interestingly enough.
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John
Inactive Member


Message 24 of 298 (59886)
10-07-2003 10:16 AM
Reply to: Message 23 by Andya Primanda
10-07-2003 5:18 AM


quote:
Second, YHWH? I don't know Hebrew, but there is a common word 'Huwa' in Arabic which means 'he' [singular male third person].
Interesting. 'Huwa' is certainly a plausible pronounciation for YHVH. 'Jehovah' is crap. It is an invented vocalization. No one has actually known how to speak the word since the destruction of the second to the last Jewish Temple.
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John
Inactive Member


Message 37 of 298 (60079)
10-08-2003 10:26 AM
Reply to: Message 28 by Buzsaw
10-07-2003 10:09 PM


quote:
Now, you may be interested to know that in the Hebrew text there is only one word for "god" whether referring to Jehovah/YHWH of the Bible, Allah of the Quran or another god, and that word is elohim, meaning god.
Except that this is fantastically wrong. Several words besides elohim are used to mean God. 'Eloah' is used, but is restricted to poetry if I remember right. 'Adonai' is used. 'YHVH' is used more than any. 'El' is used, usually in phrases like 'mighty God.' I don't understand how you can even entertain this notion.
quote:
So as to whether your god, Allah is in the Bible, that would have to be determined by the context in which it is claimed it exists and by whether your god and the YHWH of the Bible are one and the same.
Buz, you aren't likely to find my name in a Spanish text. You are likely to find the Spanish equivalent. The same will be the case with the name(s) for God in the Hebrew vs. Arabic languages. You have to remember that the languages have been mostly seperated for thousands of years.
quote:
That's also true of the Biblical god, Jehovah. Many names are attributed to him as descriptive, but that does not make them his official name.
There is something I don't understand, buz. 'God' in English doesn't have an official name. 'God' is a generic term that was adopted to mean the Christian God. This was done, I suspect, as a snub to the pagan gods. If you adopt the generic term for your God then it becomes difficult for anyone to talk about their gods without naming your God. It appears to me that the same has happened in arabic. This means that arguing over whether 'Allah' appears in the OT or not is pointless. It would be equivalent to arguing that the Christian God is not the god of the OT because the word 'God' doesn't appear in the OT.
quote:
But there is no dispute among Biblical scholars, either Jewish or Christian that I am aware of that the word YHWH means "the existing one" or the "I am" as Moses puts it in the book of Exodus when Moses asked God who he should tell Pharoah of Egypt who sent him.
The consensus seems to be that it was derived from the verb for 'to be' -- HVH. After Andya's post I started looking around a bit.
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John
Inactive Member


Message 49 of 298 (60252)
10-09-2003 10:27 AM
Reply to: Message 48 by Buzsaw
10-09-2003 12:30 AM


quote:
...but it was after their decline the last few centuries that this paranoia about the name of God came about as I understand it.
Do you mean to say that the custom of not pronouncing YHVH arose only a couple of hundred years ago?
Looks to me like it has been the custom since about 300 BC.
Page not found - iahushua.com - ajaran bangsa israel dan yehuda / yahweh
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John
Inactive Member


Message 50 of 298 (60254)
10-09-2003 10:30 AM
Reply to: Message 23 by Andya Primanda
10-07-2003 5:18 AM


quote:
Second, YHWH? I don't know Hebrew, but there is a common word 'Huwa' in Arabic which means 'he' [singular male third person].
Yahweh:
From Jesus Christ and the Temple, by Georges A. Barrios:
Moses had asked from God ... what was his proper name. The answer had been indirect, even elusive: "I am that I am", 'ehyeh 'ashr 'hyeh (Ex 3:14). In the third person, "I am" becomes "He is", Yahweh... "He is", Yahweh, would henceforth serve as a substitute for God's proper name, which remains unknown and unknowable...
No webpage found at provided URL: http://www.digiserve.com/mystic/Jewish/glossary.html#yhwh
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This message is a reply to:
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Replies to this message:
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John
Inactive Member


Message 74 of 298 (60511)
10-11-2003 9:53 AM
Reply to: Message 72 by Buzsaw
10-10-2003 8:54 PM


quote:
Their scribes and priests were very meticulous in keeping and writing every letter, jot and tittle when copying scriptures.
That may be the claim, but it would be a very difficult thing to do. it would virtually impossible for us to know if they succeeded. Then, it is obvious by the time of the Qumram colony that things were not copied exactly-- there were multiple variants. All the texts we have are after this period, so we can't really know what is a exact copy or not.
quote:
But to forbid the name to be written or spoken would have gone against the rule they formerly abode by of keeping everything as written.
It is in the latter books that the frequency of the name decreases, and then disappears. This isn't re-editting of the ancient texts, but simply not using the name in the first place.
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This message is a reply to:
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Replies to this message:
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John
Inactive Member


Message 81 of 298 (61080)
10-15-2003 8:31 PM
Reply to: Message 80 by Prozacman
10-15-2003 2:09 PM


Re: houri heaven
Certain passages of the Quran read as if the Jews and Christians have nothing to fear on judgement day.
2:62. Lo! Those who believe (in that which is revealed unto thee, Muhammad), and those who are Jews, and Christians, and Sabaeans - whoever believeth in Allah and the Last Day and doeth right - surely their reward is with their Lord, and there shall no fear come upon them neither shall they grieve.
Pickthal's Quran Translation
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This message is a reply to:
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Replies to this message:
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John
Inactive Member


Message 83 of 298 (61176)
10-16-2003 11:18 AM
Reply to: Message 82 by Prozacman
10-16-2003 10:43 AM


Re: houri heaven
quote:
AND, What is houri heaven?
Think... playboy mansion without the VD. Just google 'houri'
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