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Author Topic:   The Power/Reality Of Demons And Supernatural Evil.
jar
Member
Posts: 33439
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004
Member Rating: 2.9


Message 218 of 334 (723864)
04-10-2014 10:14 AM
Reply to: Message 217 by Phat
04-10-2014 2:03 AM


Re: a personal encounter with the supernatural
I think the most likely explanation can be found in the first couple sentences.

quote:
About five years ago, I and my friends were active in fellowship and communion with other Christian Believers. We were praying together in agreement, and we were becoming at peace with our relationships to each other, the world in general, and God as we knew Him.

TRUE BELIEVERS!


Anyone so limited that they can only spell a word one way is severely handicapped!

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 Message 217 by Phat, posted 04-10-2014 2:03 AM Phat has responded

Replies to this message:
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jar
Member
Posts: 33439
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004
Member Rating: 2.9


Message 225 of 334 (723960)
04-11-2014 10:19 AM
Reply to: Message 220 by Phat
04-10-2014 10:43 AM


Re: a personal encounter with the supernatural
TRUE HONEST BELIEVERS just do that; they believe.

Look at what you posted.

quote:
We were praying together in agreement, and we were becoming at peace with our relationships to each other, the world in general, and God as we knew Him.

"Praying together in agreement".

What was needed was the participant that as not in agreement, the participant that can step up and say "Nonsense!!!".

True Believers are not an oxymoron but rather just a dead end.


Anyone so limited that they can only spell a word one way is severely handicapped!

This message is a reply to:
 Message 220 by Phat, posted 04-10-2014 10:43 AM Phat has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 269 by Phat, posted 09-22-2019 11:17 AM jar has acknowledged this reply

  
jar
Member
Posts: 33439
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004
Member Rating: 2.9


(1)
Message 262 of 334 (863129)
09-20-2019 4:33 PM
Reply to: Message 261 by Phat
09-20-2019 3:45 PM


sheesh!
Phat writes:

ringo writes:

do point out where the scriptures get it right and where believers get it wrong.

Fair enough. And you know that it is right because....

A) The Book says so.
B) Logic, reason, and the reality of human morality say so.

Sheesh. Phat, there are no moral or ethical observations or recommendations or commandments in the Bible stories that did not also appear even earlier in other religions and social systems.

Study the writings of Mencius or Confucius or the sayings of the Buddha or Taoism or any of the thousands of religions that existed before Christianity.

Phat writes:

IF B, then:
1) Humans don't need God. We have an intuitive knowledge of right and wrong without Him.
2) Occasionally, the Bible points out wisdom that we already intuitively knew.

Almost. The Bible points out wisdom that was also common to many social systems. There is nothing "intuitive" about it; it evolved through experience and mythos that was passed down generation by generation, society by society.

Phat writes:

IF 2, then:
a) We were born with knowledge of the right intuition.

But the evidence show we are NOT born with any "right intuition™" but rather it develops over time and experience.


My Sister's Website: Rose Hill Studios     My Website: My Website

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 Message 261 by Phat, posted 09-20-2019 3:45 PM Phat has acknowledged this reply

Replies to this message:
 Message 263 by Faith, posted 09-20-2019 5:08 PM jar has responded

  
jar
Member
Posts: 33439
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004
Member Rating: 2.9


Message 264 of 334 (863131)
09-20-2019 5:19 PM
Reply to: Message 263 by Faith
09-20-2019 5:08 PM


Re: sheesh!
The Buddha taught everything Jesus taught and hundreds of years before Jesus lived. The Hindu Vedas predate the Old Testament and many religious system predated the Garden of Eden.

The point is that there is nothing in the Bible that was not also developed independently in many other cultures.


My Sister's Website: Rose Hill Studios     My Website: My Website

This message is a reply to:
 Message 263 by Faith, posted 09-20-2019 5:08 PM Faith has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 265 by Faith, posted 09-20-2019 5:31 PM jar has responded
 Message 270 by Phat, posted 09-24-2019 10:32 AM jar has responded

  
jar
Member
Posts: 33439
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004
Member Rating: 2.9


Message 267 of 334 (863134)
09-20-2019 5:54 PM
Reply to: Message 265 by Faith
09-20-2019 5:31 PM


Re: sheesh!
Faith writes:

But Christianity is about our salvation from the consequences of that moral law, which is absolutely unique.

Yup, the "get outta responsibility Christianity" is certainly easy to market, disgusting and pitiful.


My Sister's Website: Rose Hill Studios     My Website: My Website

This message is a reply to:
 Message 265 by Faith, posted 09-20-2019 5:31 PM Faith has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 268 by Faith, posted 09-20-2019 6:34 PM jar has acknowledged this reply
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jar
Member
Posts: 33439
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004
Member Rating: 2.9


Message 271 of 334 (863309)
09-24-2019 10:40 AM
Reply to: Message 270 by Phat
09-24-2019 10:32 AM


Re: sheesh!
What does the evidence show Phat?

Even if Jesus existed before the Buddha he taught nothing until he was in his late twenties to early thirties.


My Sister's Website: Rose Hill Studios     My Website: My Website

This message is a reply to:
 Message 270 by Phat, posted 09-24-2019 10:32 AM Phat has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 272 by Phat, posted 09-24-2019 10:57 AM jar has responded

  
jar
Member
Posts: 33439
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004
Member Rating: 2.9


Message 273 of 334 (863314)
09-24-2019 11:14 AM
Reply to: Message 272 by Phat
09-24-2019 10:57 AM


Re: sheesh!
But there is no evidence of any Spirit Phat.

There is no evidence of any Demons.

There is no evidence of anything Supernatural, Good or Evil.

AbE: the fact remains there are no moral principals unique to Christianity.

Edited by jar, : see AbE:


My Sister's Website: Rose Hill Studios     My Website: My Website

This message is a reply to:
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Replies to this message:
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jar
Member
Posts: 33439
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004
Member Rating: 2.9


Message 275 of 334 (863336)
09-24-2019 8:23 PM
Reply to: Message 274 by Phat
09-24-2019 6:57 PM


content?
Phat writes:

This is hardly Language In Thought & Action, here. It is a simple discussion.

But it most certainly is Phat. You are using words but they don't seem to make any sense.

Phat writes:

Evidence is irrelevant to my understanding.

The above is a great example of where Language in Thought and Action is relevant to this discussion. How can you have any understanding without evidence? You can have beliefs or fantasies or thoughts or guesses or opinions or slogans or word salad without any evidence but how can anyone have understanding without testing and evidence?

Phat writes:

For the record, I am clear on who I believe I am praying to. I prefer to call it "communicating with".

Again. Communicating is a two way transaction. You cannot communicate with something unless that thing can and does respond.

Phat writes:

So tell me this: When you, a self-proclaimed Christian pray, do you have any conception of who it is you are praying to? Or do you consider the question impossible to assess or conclude?

When I pray I can use a placeholder, a symbol that I create and choose, but that is all that it is. There is absolutely no way for me to know who if anyone or anything is on the other end of the line. I can pray to God or Allah or Ganesha or Coyote or Raven or Shiva or Vishnu and it is all the same. If there is any answer it is the content that is relevant and important, not the source.


My Sister's Website: Rose Hill Studios     My Website: My Website

This message is a reply to:
 Message 274 by Phat, posted 09-24-2019 6:57 PM Phat has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 276 by Phat, posted 09-27-2019 11:23 AM jar has responded
 Message 323 by Phat, posted 01-07-2020 1:27 PM jar has responded

  
jar
Member
Posts: 33439
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004
Member Rating: 2.9


Message 277 of 334 (863571)
09-27-2019 12:04 PM
Reply to: Message 276 by Phat
09-27-2019 11:23 AM


Re: content?
Phat writes:

I don't see how you ever could unless you hold evidence and science in higher regard than Faith & Belief.

Of course evidence should trump faith and belief.


My Sister's Website: Rose Hill Studios     My Website: My Website

This message is a reply to:
 Message 276 by Phat, posted 09-27-2019 11:23 AM Phat has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 286 by Phat, posted 09-28-2019 2:20 PM jar has responded

  
jar
Member
Posts: 33439
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004
Member Rating: 2.9


Message 292 of 334 (863678)
09-28-2019 3:10 PM
Reply to: Message 286 by Phat
09-28-2019 2:20 PM


Re: content?
I remember the full construct Phat, not just the bumper sticker playground version.

Phat writes:

And yet you have said that the supernatural..if it exists...is untestable.

No, once again. I have said that no one has ever provided a model, mechanism, process, procedure or method to test the supernatural.

And as long as there is no evidence of either Demons or Supernatural Evil no one has ever shown any reason anyone should worry about such fantasies.

And yes, evidence should trump belief.


My Sister's Website: Rose Hill Studios     My Website: My Website

This message is a reply to:
 Message 286 by Phat, posted 09-28-2019 2:20 PM Phat has acknowledged this reply

  
jar
Member
Posts: 33439
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004
Member Rating: 2.9


Message 315 of 334 (869832)
01-06-2020 8:36 AM


Topic
Phat, what does any of the stuff you brought over here have to do with the TOPIC?

My Sister's Website: Rose Hill Studios     My Website: My Website

Replies to this message:
 Message 317 by Phat, posted 01-06-2020 7:40 PM jar has responded

  
jar
Member
Posts: 33439
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004
Member Rating: 2.9


Message 318 of 334 (869855)
01-06-2020 7:45 PM
Reply to: Message 317 by Phat
01-06-2020 7:40 PM


there is no evidence of demons or supernatural evil!
Phat writes:

Did it ever occur to anyone that if a supernatural realm and subsequent "war" does exist, evidence would by necessity be rare?

Something so rare as to be undetectable is really not worth wasting anyone's time or concern.


My Sister's Website: Rose Hill Studios     My Website: My Website

This message is a reply to:
 Message 317 by Phat, posted 01-06-2020 7:40 PM Phat has acknowledged this reply

  
jar
Member
Posts: 33439
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004
Member Rating: 2.9


Message 320 of 334 (869880)
01-07-2020 6:58 AM
Reply to: Message 319 by Faith
01-06-2020 10:26 PM


Re: Evidence of demonic phenomena
Even if Phat actually did see what is claimed, it is NOT evidence of demonic possession. It might be very weak evidence of red eyes and many voices seeming to speak but that is all.

Basics Faith, basics.

Learn what evidence really is.


My Sister's Website: Rose Hill Studios     My Website: My Website

This message is a reply to:
 Message 319 by Faith, posted 01-06-2020 10:26 PM Faith has not yet responded

  
jar
Member
Posts: 33439
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004
Member Rating: 2.9


(1)
Message 322 of 334 (869886)
01-07-2020 11:19 AM
Reply to: Message 321 by ringo
01-07-2020 10:51 AM


Re: Topic
Remember the 60's? Suppose they gave a War and nobody came?

It seems that is exactly what happened with the supposed Spiritual War.


My Sister's Website: Rose Hill Studios     My Website: My Website

This message is a reply to:
 Message 321 by ringo, posted 01-07-2020 10:51 AM ringo has acknowledged this reply

Replies to this message:
 Message 326 by Phat, posted 01-07-2020 1:39 PM jar has responded

  
jar
Member
Posts: 33439
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004
Member Rating: 2.9


Message 325 of 334 (869889)
01-07-2020 1:38 PM
Reply to: Message 323 by Phat
01-07-2020 1:27 PM


Re: What He Did vs What YOU Do.
No, not counter-intuitive, simply pointless and of no value beyond the fact it seems to make you feel good. And that's fine if it makes you happy. And yes, it seems that you simply won't use evidence or reason or logic or reality.

Phat writes:

Maybe so, but a believer by definition believes either in a source (God, Jesus, Coyote, Raven, etc...) or in themselves (Content).

Basics Phat, basics. That is a totally nonsense statement. Both of your examples are "source" and neither has anything to do with "content".

Learn what words actually mean and you may avoid making such silly assertions.

Learn the difference between "source" and "content".

Phat writes:

The way that I define believers in this context is the belief in a God Who listens or is aware of your prayer in some regard.

No one doubts that that is what you believe.

Phat writes:

Seems that to you, all that is important in prayer is how YOU process it and respond to it.

Exactly. The only thing that can ever be observed is behavior. The only thing that can ever accomplish anything is behavior. The only thing that can be tested is behavior.


My Sister's Website: Rose Hill Studios     My Website: My Website

This message is a reply to:
 Message 323 by Phat, posted 01-07-2020 1:27 PM Phat has not yet responded

  
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