Just tonight on Fox News it was announced that an old Hindu man has lived for 66 years without food or water. According to the source, this has been verified by medical doctors and people come to him to pay respect and reverence. The observers have determined that his energy comes from some metaphysical or spiritual power. The man himself attributes it to a certain goddess who he has been devoted to and worships.
Having cited the above, I recall back in the 60's I heard a Christian and Missionary Alliance missionary speak at our church who had just returned to the states on furlough from a deep pagan tribe in the jungles of New Guinea and told the story of his ministry there in a remote pagan tribe. he said that when he first arrived at the village he knew he must deal with this witch woman who had total spiritual dominance and authority in the village because of her powers. Upon investigation and inquiry he learned that this woman had lived a much longer life than any human was able to live, something like 160 years or so, if I recollect accurately. He determined upon a plan to fast and pray for three days after which he would confront the woman whom he had determined to be demon possessed. After his fast, there was to be a public spiritual exercise of the village at which all the villagers were to be present and the woman would do her ritual thing. As it commenced, he approached the woman and rebuked the demon, demanding it leave the woman's body. To his amazement and the amazement of all present, the woman fell dead. He determined that the woman was kept alive solely by the demon she was posessed of and that her body became nothing but a shell/house for the demon to live and operate.
After the exorcism there ensued a great spiritual Biblical awakening in the village and the majority of the villagers embraced Christianity, making his mission a great success. I believe there was still cannabalistic tribes in the nation's jungles as late as this, but do not recall that this village practiced cannibalism. I don't believe so.
I believe the man cited on Fox has been living on demonic power. What think ye about this and other supernatural evil?
Ned, a whole lot of us consider Fox to be the most unbiased and objective newscasts of the Networks. I'm on dish and no ability to access cable. I pay about a hundred dollars additional a year just to get the package that includes Fox.
At any rate Fox gave no official opinion as to the network's opinion of this. They simply covered it as newsworthy. At least Fox is not so phobic of the supernatural that they would not consider it newsworthy.
------------------ The immeasurable present is forever consuming the eternal future and extending the infinite past. buz
[This message has been edited by buzsaw, 11-22-2003]
quote: Have you bothered to track down the facts or did this not seem just a little too fantastic for you?[66 bloody YEARS man!] Who were the medical doctors? They most certainly must have records of such an incredible event.This also needs to be asked why would medical doctors be any better at determining the facts than somebody else?
I dono. I'm just re-reporting the news from Fox. Then I'm coupling this with the other which I figure to be very reliable. I have complete confidence that the missionary was telling the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth. This woman being the most prominent member of the tribe, would suggest that the members of the tribe knew her age, as their parents would've known her.
quote: Really? Do medical doctors have tests that they can conduct to determine metaphysical or spiritual powers?[Does yours?] Just how do you observe something like that? Did the newscast say what instruments they used or what expertise medical doctors have in this field?
They determined this as a process of elimination. If he hadn't eaten or drank for 66 years, go figure. I've given all the particulars I remember from the newscast.
quote: I am confused here. Is this a deep pagan tribe or a remote pagan tribe? Seriously now.What calender did this deep remote pagan tribe go by that they were able to establish 160 years as being accurate? Did the missionary have a name and did he leave records of his journey? How did he determine her age accurately? If the woman had absolute authority over this village then how did he glean any information?
My bad. It was a remote pagan tribe deep in the jungle. Calendar? They knew the seasons and could count the years. How did he glean info? A no brainer. Simply ask the people. She wouldn't have power over every little thing they said, now, would she?
quote: The woman fell dead and after this they were able to determine that she had been kept alive solely by the the demon she was possesed of. How did they determine that? Is there a blood test or something for this?
1. People just don't live that long do they? 2. The fact that she fell dead at the exorcism would indicate that the demon was her life source/power.
This has been 40+ years ago. I'm going solely on the integrity of the missionary. Very likely this could be searched out by contacting the Christian Missionary Alliance missions dept if you want to find more. I don't have time to engage in this much research. If I find out anything I'll holler.
quote:What would they be? What would they be made out of? How would they possess or influence humans if they're not made of matter?
If they exist, then why can everything they're said to do be explained by normal, non-supernatural processes? Why assume they exist if there's nothing that requires demons to explain?
But you stated that there's a "weight of evidence" that contradicts their existence. Please document the evidence. There's lots of things existing which have never been seen. We only know they exist because of the effect they make in the universe. Some, including myself, have experienced the effects of demons. What's your weight of evidence they are lying or in error?
Your statement: "these stories are true because biblical demonology is true, despite the weight of evidence to the contrary."
2. I'm sure, beginning from the time of Jesus til now, much good has been accomplished by knowing of the evil empire. For example, the tribe in New Gineau was much blessed having the demonic oppression removed from their village. Thanks to the missionaries, nearly all of the cannabalism has been erradicated from the planet.
2. Ultra evil people like Son of Sam, Charles Manson, Jimmy Jones, etc attest to the possibility of an organized evil invisible empire. These are just a few. Also, Hitler was involved in the occult, if this means anything to anyone.
Where is your positive evidence that they do exist?
Do you believe that mental illness, epilepsy, and a bunch of other diseases are caused by demons? Why or why not?
1. The Bible which proves itself to be reliable via fulfilled history coupled with history, archeological discoveries, it's effect on peoples and nations, etc.
2. Testimony of ex-spiritualists, missionaries who've witnessed the evil supernatural of the jungles, and other such sources.
3. The accuracy of Biblical description of the demonic, as well as all other satanic evil and it's effects on society. For example, the Bible claims false religious doctrines to be demonically inspired. Interestingly it is often the anti-Christian/Biblical religious doctrines tend to be the violent doctrines which teach violence to compel others to be adherants or which persecute passive Christian churches and organizations.
4. Muhammed, Joseph Smith, the Buddah, Shakyamuni and others all had visions or alleged supernatural experiences which inspired them to originate their religions. Either their experiences were of Satan's kingdom or of God's kingdom. Since all these originated doctrines contrary to the Bible, as a Biblical Christian, my opinion is that they are of the kingdom of evil, even though there is some good in all these. As with examples in the Bible, the evil laces the false and the evil with enough good so as to attract adherants and deceive.
5. People know as "cutters" are a good example of Biblical demonism. I know of a person whose daughter has this need to cut herself. A number of cults and pagan religions do/did things to draw blood in their rituals as well as ofering human sacrifices.
All of the above is ample evidence, imo of what the Bible calls the "mystery of iniquity."
Asgara, Jesus cast a demons out of a man who was a cutter. Also, you didn't address the other self mutilators I cited in my post.
Btw, I forgot to mention that about 35 years ago when I lived in Ca I was attacked in a dream by a demon on a night after I had a very tiring day. In my dream, my wife and I walked into a church and sat in the back few rows with a couple dozen or so other folks. Up front the preacher began to preach at us, accusing us mildly at first and gradually becoming more vocal and vicious. He then came down the isle and confronted us. He became so vicious that he became a big gapping open mouth ready to devour us. At that moment I jumped up from my seat and said, "In the name of Jesus get back." Immediately he wilted and disappeared through the wall to my left, the door being on my right. I went to the podium crying with joy and praising God for the blood of Jesus and his powerful name that had delivered us from the devil who was about to devour us. When I woke up I was still crying and praising God for this deliverance. This was the kind of dream that I had never exprienced before. It was no ordinary dream.
A couple of weeks or so later a penticostal missionary whom I had never met before visited my home and I took him and his wife out to dinner. I related my story to him and he said that was interesting because he too had had an attack in a dream. In his dream he had this beautiful large brick home and his neighbor lived in a run down house next door. He wanted to go and help his neighbor but when he went out the door the neighbors dogs attacked him. When he turned to go back into his house with his back to the dogs, the dogs jumped on him and knocked him down. He then woke up.
I asked God to help me to understand the meaning of these two dreams and the significance of how each turned out. The answer came, not audibly, but by the Spirit to my mind that my doctrine had taught that one trusts in the blood of Jesus and rebukes in the name of Jesus, resisting the devil in that name. My brother's penticostal religion was more on emotional stuff and weak on doctrine. His problem was that it had not been instilled into his thinking that you don't rebuke the devil without the use of the name of Jesus. Also, his house represented his good works and he relied on the safety of his works rather than the authority of Jesus and his blood to resist. Then, you never turn your back on the devil/demons, nor fear them, but, realizing the power of Jesus' name, you resist them.
Time for bath n bed. I'll try to address some other posts, tomorrow. G'nite n God bless.
Do I take your post to be, at least guardedly, a "yes" answer to the question "is epilepsy caused by demons?" Have my son and I really wasted all that time and money on neurologists and medicine for the last 25 years, when I could have had him exorcised?
I'm glad you added the word, "guardedly." My personal opinion on this is that mental disorders may or may not be caused by demons, but that the evil empire has much more involvement in these ailments than we all are comprehending. Either demonic oppression or possession is not something to be ashamed of as much as it is something to be addressed and understood. Many who are oppressed or even possessed are victims of Satanic attack and to be pittied, loved and helped rather than to be ridiculed or belittled. It can happen to anyone, especially folks who are deceived. Mental health problems, physical stress, fatigue and especially drugs are means of weakenig the victum for the attack. To absolutely reject the possibility of the forces of evil in treating mental problems may be the reason so little is being accomplished in lasting and effective treatment with hapless victims.
If indeed the evil empire is reality, the only truly effective solution to the problem is some spiritual antedote or power that is great enough to overcome the evil. In the experience I personally encountered, Jesus via the Holy Spirit and the word of God worked very effectively, just as the Bible states. Remember how Jesus dealt with Satan? He rebuked him after quoting scripture.
[This message has been edited by buzsaw, 12-28-2003]
[This message has been edited by buzsaw, 12-28-2003]
Coragyps, all I can do is give you my personal thoughts on this. It's a mysterious subject which I don't claim to speak with a lot of authority and I don't think many can. Judging from the one experience I had which I posted about how I (Christian) was attacked by a demon and had it not been that I was well doctrinated in how to deal with the evil, that is to rebuke/resist in the name of Jesus because Jesus is greater I would have failed in opposing it. Christians can do this with confidence and authority. However if you read on I related the experience of another Christian who was not indoctrinated with the right stuff to resist and he was overcome by the forces of evil, Christian or not.
To answer your questions, remember I said I was very tired from a very stressful day before the dream? I had an auction at my business and lost my shirt after a whole lot of work to get it up. This also may apply to disease, especially mental disease because demons work with the psyche of the mind. Deception of all kinds leave way for the false and evil to prevail. Things like Transcendental Metitation, Yoga, Wicca Buddhist no thought, and other Eastern stuff often sweeps the mind clean so as to allow the demons and their doctrines to fill the vacuum, so to speak. Drugs, both phamaceutical and otherwise may also affect the mind so as to lower the resistance. It's interesting the Greek for witchcraft is pharmacia/drugs. Don't forget the Columbine school shooting killer kids were on ritalin, as so many are and it's terrible stuff that ought not be allowed, but the [pharmacia] interests are powerful and money talks. As I said, this's a complex difficult subject and imo a lot of factors can play a role in understanding the mystery of evil.
[This message has been edited by buzsaw, 12-31-2003]