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Author | Topic: The Power/Reality Of Demons And Supernatural Evil. | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
jar Member Posts: 33118 From: Texas!! Joined: Member Rating: 4.3 |
What does the evidence show Phat?
Even if Jesus existed before the Buddha he taught nothing until he was in his late twenties to early thirties.
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Phat Member Posts: 14868 From: Denver,Colorado USA Joined: Member Rating: 1.1 |
No but the Spirit was around. The question is whether there is more than one possible flow that is good. We are talking both source and content.
Chance as a real force is a myth. It has no basis in reality and no place in scientific inquiry. For science and philosophy to continue to advance in knowledge, chance must be demythologized once and for all. ~RC Sproul "A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." ~Mark Twain " ~"If that's not sufficient for you go soak your head."~Faith You can "get answers" by watching the ducks. That doesn't mean the answers are coming from them.~Ringo “As the fear of God is the beginning of wisdom, so the denial of God is the height of foolishness.”
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jar Member Posts: 33118 From: Texas!! Joined: Member Rating: 4.3 |
But there is no evidence of any Spirit Phat.
There is no evidence of any Demons. There is no evidence of anything Supernatural, Good or Evil. AbE: the fact remains there are no moral principals unique to Christianity. Edited by jar, : see AbE:
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Phat Member Posts: 14868 From: Denver,Colorado USA Joined: Member Rating: 1.1 |
So tell me this: When you, a self-proclaimed Christian pray, do you have any conception of who it is you are praying to? Or do you consider the question impossible to assess or conclude? For the record, I am clear on who I believe I am praying to. I prefer to call it "communicating with". Objectively I have no method of showing you what I feel, see, believe, or experience. My attempts at clarification may result in word salad, but you always cloud the issue (and frame the argument using *your* standards) when you use that term. This is hardly Language In Thought & Action, here. It is a simple discussion. Chance as a real force is a myth. It has no basis in reality and no place in scientific inquiry. For science and philosophy to continue to advance in knowledge, chance must be demythologized once and for all. ~RC Sproul "A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." ~Mark Twain " ~"If that's not sufficient for you go soak your head."~Faith You can "get answers" by watching the ducks. That doesn't mean the answers are coming from them.~Ringo “As the fear of God is the beginning of wisdom, so the denial of God is the height of foolishness.”
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jar Member Posts: 33118 From: Texas!! Joined: Member Rating: 4.3 |
But it most certainly is Phat. You are using words but they don't seem to make any sense.
The above is a great example of where Language in Thought and Action is relevant to this discussion. How can you have any understanding without evidence? You can have beliefs or fantasies or thoughts or guesses or opinions or slogans or word salad without any evidence but how can anyone have understanding without testing and evidence?
Again. Communicating is a two way transaction. You cannot communicate with something unless that thing can and does respond.
When I pray I can use a placeholder, a symbol that I create and choose, but that is all that it is. There is absolutely no way for me to know who if anyone or anything is on the other end of the line. I can pray to God or Allah or Ganesha or Coyote or Raven or Shiva or Vishnu and it is all the same. If there is any answer it is the content that is relevant and important, not the source.
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Phat Member Posts: 14868 From: Denver,Colorado USA Joined: Member Rating: 1.1 |
Is there a test I am missing? Just by hanging out here at EvC I allow my belief to be falsified by others...though I myself cannot simply throw it away...I don't see how you ever could unless you hold evidence and science in higher regard than Faith & Belief. Chance as a real force is a myth. It has no basis in reality and no place in scientific inquiry. For science and philosophy to continue to advance in knowledge, chance must be demythologized once and for all. ~RC Sproul "A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." ~Mark Twain " ~"If that's not sufficient for you go soak your head."~Faith You can "get answers" by watching the ducks. That doesn't mean the answers are coming from them.~Ringo “As the fear of God is the beginning of wisdom, so the denial of God is the height of foolishness.”
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jar Member Posts: 33118 From: Texas!! Joined: Member Rating: 4.3 |
Of course evidence should trump faith and belief.
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AZPaul3 Member Posts: 5531 From: Phoenix Joined: Member Rating: 5.8
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There isn't any other kind. If it is not objective then it is not evidence. It is merely conjecture and wishful presumption. Eschew obfuscation. Habituate elucidation.
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Phat Member Posts: 14868 From: Denver,Colorado USA Joined: Member Rating: 1.1 |
But the whole concept of God and whether there is one and how to determine if God can be found..etc etc...is beyond understanding.
Chance as a real force is a myth. It has no basis in reality and no place in scientific inquiry. For science and philosophy to continue to advance in knowledge, chance must be demythologized once and for all. ~RC Sproul "A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." ~Mark Twain " ~"If that's not sufficient for you go soak your head."~Faith You can "get answers" by watching the ducks. That doesn't mean the answers are coming from them.~Ringo “As the fear of God is the beginning of wisdom, so the denial of God is the height of foolishness.”
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AZPaul3 Member Posts: 5531 From: Phoenix Joined: Member Rating: 5.8 |
That is part of the untrue presumption. All above are well within human understanding. There is just nothing there to understand. Eschew obfuscation. Habituate elucidation.
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Phat Member Posts: 14868 From: Denver,Colorado USA Joined: Member Rating: 1.1 |
Yes, but how do you know you don't just choose to assume this? If nothing is more obvious than something, the reality is as it is. But if something exists, evidence awaits confirmation---or denial---within your own frame of reference.
It just so happened that I had a sufficient reason to believe. Not everybody does. Chance as a real force is a myth. It has no basis in reality and no place in scientific inquiry. For science and philosophy to continue to advance in knowledge, chance must be demythologized once and for all. ~RC Sproul "A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." ~Mark Twain " ~"If that's not sufficient for you go soak your head."~Faith You can "get answers" by watching the ducks. That doesn't mean the answers are coming from them.~Ringo “As the fear of God is the beginning of wisdom, so the denial of God is the height of foolishness.”
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ringo Member Posts: 18854 From: frozen wasteland Joined: Member Rating: 3.9 |
When you're three, "sufficient reason to believe" in Santa Claus is a pretty low bar. “Maturity, one discovers, has everything to do with the acceptance of ‘not knowing.” -- Mark Z. Danielewski, House of Leaves
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Phat Member Posts: 14868 From: Denver,Colorado USA Joined: Member Rating: 1.1 |
I became a believer in roughly 1993. I was roughly 34. I don't see the correlation.
Chance as a real force is a myth. It has no basis in reality and no place in scientific inquiry. For science and philosophy to continue to advance in knowledge, chance must be demythologized once and for all. ~RC Sproul "A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." ~Mark Twain " ~"If that's not sufficient for you go soak your head."~Faith You can "get answers" by watching the ducks. That doesn't mean the answers are coming from them.~Ringo “As the fear of God is the beginning of wisdom, so the denial of God is the height of foolishness.”
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ringo Member Posts: 18854 From: frozen wasteland Joined: Member Rating: 3.9 |
I don't see the confusion. "Sufficient reason" is pretty empty. “Maturity, one discovers, has everything to do with the acceptance of ‘not knowing.” -- Mark Z. Danielewski, House of Leaves
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Phat Member Posts: 14868 From: Denver,Colorado USA Joined: Member Rating: 1.1 |
One man sees empty and another sees full. Convince me that empty is better for society. So far all you have given me is the reason (evidence of a low bar) why belief is irrational. I already knew that!
![]() Chance as a real force is a myth. It has no basis in reality and no place in scientific inquiry. For science and philosophy to continue to advance in knowledge, chance must be demythologized once and for all. ~RC Sproul "A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." ~Mark Twain " ~"If that's not sufficient for you go soak your head."~Faith You can "get answers" by watching the ducks. That doesn't mean the answers are coming from them.~Ringo “As the fear of God is the beginning of wisdom, so the denial of God is the height of foolishness.”
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