Understanding through Discussion


Welcome! You are not logged in. [ Login ]
EvC Forum active members: 83 (8942 total)
44 online now:
Chatting now:  Chat room empty
Newest Member: John Sullivan
Upcoming Birthdays: Anish
Post Volume: Total: 863,374 Year: 18,410/19,786 Month: 830/1,705 Week: 82/518 Day: 8/74 Hour: 0/3


Thread  Details

Email This Thread
Newer Topic | Older Topic
  
Author Topic:   The Power/Reality Of Demons And Supernatural Evil.
jar
Member
Posts: 31453
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004
Member Rating: 3.0


Message 271 of 307 (863309)
09-24-2019 10:40 AM
Reply to: Message 270 by Thugpreacha
09-24-2019 10:32 AM


Re: sheesh!
What does the evidence show Phat?

Even if Jesus existed before the Buddha he taught nothing until he was in his late twenties to early thirties.


My Sister's Website: Rose Hill Studios     My Website: My Website

This message is a reply to:
 Message 270 by Thugpreacha, posted 09-24-2019 10:32 AM Thugpreacha has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 272 by Thugpreacha, posted 09-24-2019 10:57 AM jar has responded

  
Thugpreacha
Member
Posts: 12961
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.2


Message 272 of 307 (863312)
09-24-2019 10:57 AM
Reply to: Message 271 by jar
09-24-2019 10:40 AM


Re: sheesh!
No but the Spirit was around. The question is whether there is more than one possible flow that is good. We are talking both source and content.

Chance as a real force is a myth. It has no basis in reality and no place in scientific inquiry. For science and philosophy to continue to advance in knowledge, chance must be demythologized once and for all. ~RC Sproul
"A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." ~Mark Twain "
~"If that's not sufficient for you go soak your head."~Faith

You can "get answers" by watching the ducks. That doesn't mean the answers are coming from them.~Ringo

“As the fear of God is the beginning of wisdom, so the denial of God is the height of foolishness.”
? R.C. Sproul, Essential Truths of the Christian Faith


This message is a reply to:
 Message 271 by jar, posted 09-24-2019 10:40 AM jar has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 273 by jar, posted 09-24-2019 11:14 AM Thugpreacha has responded

  
jar
Member
Posts: 31453
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004
Member Rating: 3.0


Message 273 of 307 (863314)
09-24-2019 11:14 AM
Reply to: Message 272 by Thugpreacha
09-24-2019 10:57 AM


Re: sheesh!
But there is no evidence of any Spirit Phat.

There is no evidence of any Demons.

There is no evidence of anything Supernatural, Good or Evil.

AbE: the fact remains there are no moral principals unique to Christianity.

Edited by jar, : see AbE:


My Sister's Website: Rose Hill Studios     My Website: My Website

This message is a reply to:
 Message 272 by Thugpreacha, posted 09-24-2019 10:57 AM Thugpreacha has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 274 by Thugpreacha, posted 09-24-2019 6:57 PM jar has responded

  
Thugpreacha
Member
Posts: 12961
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.2


Message 274 of 307 (863333)
09-24-2019 6:57 PM
Reply to: Message 273 by jar
09-24-2019 11:14 AM


Re: sheesh!
jar writes:

But there is no evidence of any Spirit Phat.
There is no evidence of any Demons.

There is no evidence of anything Supernatural, Good or Evil.

Subjectively I have experienced enough vague sensations to not personally require any more evidence. Bad Burrito? Nahhh I don't think so. Others may require evidence in order to satisfy their argument. It appears that you have chosen to study the human attempts to describe, define, and quantify God as they understand Him. (or Her/It, for you) I have chosen to believe without objective evidence. Evidence is irrelevant to my understanding.

So tell me this: When you, a self-proclaimed Christian pray, do you have any conception of who it is you are praying to? Or do you consider the question impossible to assess or conclude?

For the record, I am clear on who I believe I am praying to. I prefer to call it "communicating with". Objectively I have no method of showing you what I feel, see, believe, or experience. My attempts at clarification may result in word salad, but you always cloud the issue (and frame the argument using *your* standards) when you use that term. This is hardly Language In Thought & Action, here. It is a simple discussion.


Chance as a real force is a myth. It has no basis in reality and no place in scientific inquiry. For science and philosophy to continue to advance in knowledge, chance must be demythologized once and for all. ~RC Sproul
"A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." ~Mark Twain "
~"If that's not sufficient for you go soak your head."~Faith

You can "get answers" by watching the ducks. That doesn't mean the answers are coming from them.~Ringo

“As the fear of God is the beginning of wisdom, so the denial of God is the height of foolishness.”
? R.C. Sproul, Essential Truths of the Christian Faith


This message is a reply to:
 Message 273 by jar, posted 09-24-2019 11:14 AM jar has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 275 by jar, posted 09-24-2019 8:23 PM Thugpreacha has responded

  
jar
Member
Posts: 31453
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004
Member Rating: 3.0


Message 275 of 307 (863336)
09-24-2019 8:23 PM
Reply to: Message 274 by Thugpreacha
09-24-2019 6:57 PM


content?
Phat writes:

This is hardly Language In Thought & Action, here. It is a simple discussion.

But it most certainly is Phat. You are using words but they don't seem to make any sense.

Phat writes:

Evidence is irrelevant to my understanding.

The above is a great example of where Language in Thought and Action is relevant to this discussion. How can you have any understanding without evidence? You can have beliefs or fantasies or thoughts or guesses or opinions or slogans or word salad without any evidence but how can anyone have understanding without testing and evidence?

Phat writes:

For the record, I am clear on who I believe I am praying to. I prefer to call it "communicating with".

Again. Communicating is a two way transaction. You cannot communicate with something unless that thing can and does respond.

Phat writes:

So tell me this: When you, a self-proclaimed Christian pray, do you have any conception of who it is you are praying to? Or do you consider the question impossible to assess or conclude?

When I pray I can use a placeholder, a symbol that I create and choose, but that is all that it is. There is absolutely no way for me to know who if anyone or anything is on the other end of the line. I can pray to God or Allah or Ganesha or Coyote or Raven or Shiva or Vishnu and it is all the same. If there is any answer it is the content that is relevant and important, not the source.


My Sister's Website: Rose Hill Studios     My Website: My Website

This message is a reply to:
 Message 274 by Thugpreacha, posted 09-24-2019 6:57 PM Thugpreacha has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 276 by Thugpreacha, posted 09-27-2019 11:23 AM jar has responded

  
Thugpreacha
Member
Posts: 12961
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.2


Message 276 of 307 (863563)
09-27-2019 11:23 AM
Reply to: Message 275 by jar
09-24-2019 8:23 PM


Re: content?
How can you have any understanding without evidence?
Are we talking objective evidence?

You can have beliefs or fantasies or thoughts or guesses or opinions or slogans or word salad without any evidence but how can anyone have understanding without testing and evidence?
I test my belief every day.

Is there a test I am missing? Just by hanging out here at EvC I allow my belief to be falsified by others...though I myself cannot simply throw it away...I don't see how you ever could unless you hold evidence and science in higher regard than Faith & Belief.


Chance as a real force is a myth. It has no basis in reality and no place in scientific inquiry. For science and philosophy to continue to advance in knowledge, chance must be demythologized once and for all. ~RC Sproul
"A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." ~Mark Twain "
~"If that's not sufficient for you go soak your head."~Faith

You can "get answers" by watching the ducks. That doesn't mean the answers are coming from them.~Ringo

“As the fear of God is the beginning of wisdom, so the denial of God is the height of foolishness.”
? R.C. Sproul, Essential Truths of the Christian Faith


This message is a reply to:
 Message 275 by jar, posted 09-24-2019 8:23 PM jar has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 277 by jar, posted 09-27-2019 12:04 PM Thugpreacha has responded
 Message 278 by AZPaul3, posted 09-27-2019 12:05 PM Thugpreacha has responded

  
jar
Member
Posts: 31453
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004
Member Rating: 3.0


Message 277 of 307 (863571)
09-27-2019 12:04 PM
Reply to: Message 276 by Thugpreacha
09-27-2019 11:23 AM


Re: content?
Phat writes:

I don't see how you ever could unless you hold evidence and science in higher regard than Faith & Belief.

Of course evidence should trump faith and belief.


My Sister's Website: Rose Hill Studios     My Website: My Website

This message is a reply to:
 Message 276 by Thugpreacha, posted 09-27-2019 11:23 AM Thugpreacha has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 286 by Thugpreacha, posted 09-28-2019 2:20 PM jar has responded

  
AZPaul3
Member
Posts: 4630
From: Phoenix
Joined: 11-06-2006
Member Rating: 4.5


(1)
Message 278 of 307 (863572)
09-27-2019 12:05 PM
Reply to: Message 276 by Thugpreacha
09-27-2019 11:23 AM


Re: content?
How can you have any understanding without evidence?

Are we talking objective evidence?

There isn't any other kind.

If it is not objective then it is not evidence. It is merely conjecture and wishful presumption.


Eschew obfuscation. Habituate elucidation.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 276 by Thugpreacha, posted 09-27-2019 11:23 AM Thugpreacha has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 279 by Thugpreacha, posted 09-28-2019 3:54 AM AZPaul3 has responded

  
Thugpreacha
Member
Posts: 12961
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.2


Message 279 of 307 (863620)
09-28-2019 3:54 AM
Reply to: Message 278 by AZPaul3
09-27-2019 12:05 PM


Re: content?
But the whole concept of God and whether there is one and how to determine if God can be found..etc etc...is beyond understanding.

Chance as a real force is a myth. It has no basis in reality and no place in scientific inquiry. For science and philosophy to continue to advance in knowledge, chance must be demythologized once and for all. ~RC Sproul
"A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." ~Mark Twain "
~"If that's not sufficient for you go soak your head."~Faith

You can "get answers" by watching the ducks. That doesn't mean the answers are coming from them.~Ringo

“As the fear of God is the beginning of wisdom, so the denial of God is the height of foolishness.”
? R.C. Sproul, Essential Truths of the Christian Faith


This message is a reply to:
 Message 278 by AZPaul3, posted 09-27-2019 12:05 PM AZPaul3 has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 280 by AZPaul3, posted 09-28-2019 11:42 AM Thugpreacha has responded

  
AZPaul3
Member
Posts: 4630
From: Phoenix
Joined: 11-06-2006
Member Rating: 4.5


Message 280 of 307 (863630)
09-28-2019 11:42 AM
Reply to: Message 279 by Thugpreacha
09-28-2019 3:54 AM


Re: content?
But the whole concept of God and whether there is one and how to determine if God can be found..etc etc...is beyond understanding.

That is part of the untrue presumption. All above are well within human understanding. There is just nothing there to understand.


Eschew obfuscation. Habituate elucidation.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 279 by Thugpreacha, posted 09-28-2019 3:54 AM Thugpreacha has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 281 by Thugpreacha, posted 09-28-2019 1:48 PM AZPaul3 has responded

  
Thugpreacha
Member
Posts: 12961
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.2


Message 281 of 307 (863648)
09-28-2019 1:48 PM
Reply to: Message 280 by AZPaul3
09-28-2019 11:42 AM


Re: content?
Yes, but how do you know you don't just choose to assume this? If nothing is more obvious than something, the reality is as it is. But if something exists, evidence awaits confirmation---or denial---within your own frame of reference.

It just so happened that I had a sufficient reason to believe. Not everybody does.


Chance as a real force is a myth. It has no basis in reality and no place in scientific inquiry. For science and philosophy to continue to advance in knowledge, chance must be demythologized once and for all. ~RC Sproul
"A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." ~Mark Twain "
~"If that's not sufficient for you go soak your head."~Faith

You can "get answers" by watching the ducks. That doesn't mean the answers are coming from them.~Ringo

“As the fear of God is the beginning of wisdom, so the denial of God is the height of foolishness.”
? R.C. Sproul, Essential Truths of the Christian Faith


This message is a reply to:
 Message 280 by AZPaul3, posted 09-28-2019 11:42 AM AZPaul3 has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 282 by ringo, posted 09-28-2019 1:54 PM Thugpreacha has responded
 Message 287 by AZPaul3, posted 09-28-2019 2:23 PM Thugpreacha has not yet responded

  
ringo
Member
Posts: 17394
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005
Member Rating: 2.6


Message 282 of 307 (863650)
09-28-2019 1:54 PM
Reply to: Message 281 by Thugpreacha
09-28-2019 1:48 PM


Re: content?
Phat writes:

It just so happened that I had a sufficient reason to believe.


When you're three, "sufficient reason to believe" in Santa Claus is a pretty low bar.

“Maturity, one discovers, has everything to do with the acceptance of ‘not knowing.”
-- Mark Z. Danielewski, House of Leaves

This message is a reply to:
 Message 281 by Thugpreacha, posted 09-28-2019 1:48 PM Thugpreacha has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 283 by Thugpreacha, posted 09-28-2019 1:56 PM ringo has responded

  
Thugpreacha
Member
Posts: 12961
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.2


Message 283 of 307 (863651)
09-28-2019 1:56 PM
Reply to: Message 282 by ringo
09-28-2019 1:54 PM


Sufficient Reason To Believe?
I became a believer in roughly 1993. I was roughly 34. I don't see the correlation.

Chance as a real force is a myth. It has no basis in reality and no place in scientific inquiry. For science and philosophy to continue to advance in knowledge, chance must be demythologized once and for all. ~RC Sproul
"A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." ~Mark Twain "
~"If that's not sufficient for you go soak your head."~Faith

You can "get answers" by watching the ducks. That doesn't mean the answers are coming from them.~Ringo

“As the fear of God is the beginning of wisdom, so the denial of God is the height of foolishness.”
? R.C. Sproul, Essential Truths of the Christian Faith


This message is a reply to:
 Message 282 by ringo, posted 09-28-2019 1:54 PM ringo has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 284 by ringo, posted 09-28-2019 2:00 PM Thugpreacha has responded

  
ringo
Member
Posts: 17394
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005
Member Rating: 2.6


Message 284 of 307 (863652)
09-28-2019 2:00 PM
Reply to: Message 283 by Thugpreacha
09-28-2019 1:56 PM


Re: Sufficient Reason To Believe?
Phat writes:

I became a believer in roughly 1993. I was roughly 34. I don't see the correlation.


I don't see the confusion. "Sufficient reason" is pretty empty.

“Maturity, one discovers, has everything to do with the acceptance of ‘not knowing.”
-- Mark Z. Danielewski, House of Leaves

This message is a reply to:
 Message 283 by Thugpreacha, posted 09-28-2019 1:56 PM Thugpreacha has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 285 by Thugpreacha, posted 09-28-2019 2:15 PM ringo has responded

  
Thugpreacha
Member
Posts: 12961
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.2


Message 285 of 307 (863655)
09-28-2019 2:15 PM
Reply to: Message 284 by ringo
09-28-2019 2:00 PM


Re: Sufficient Reason To Believe?
One man sees empty and another sees full. Convince me that empty is better for society. So far all you have given me is the reason (evidence of a low bar) why belief is irrational. I already knew that!

Chance as a real force is a myth. It has no basis in reality and no place in scientific inquiry. For science and philosophy to continue to advance in knowledge, chance must be demythologized once and for all. ~RC Sproul
"A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." ~Mark Twain "
~"If that's not sufficient for you go soak your head."~Faith

You can "get answers" by watching the ducks. That doesn't mean the answers are coming from them.~Ringo

“As the fear of God is the beginning of wisdom, so the denial of God is the height of foolishness.”
? R.C. Sproul, Essential Truths of the Christian Faith


This message is a reply to:
 Message 284 by ringo, posted 09-28-2019 2:00 PM ringo has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 288 by ringo, posted 09-28-2019 2:25 PM Thugpreacha has not yet responded

  
Newer Topic | Older Topic
Jump to:


Copyright 2001-2018 by EvC Forum, All Rights Reserved

™ Version 4.0 Beta
Innovative software from Qwixotic © 2019