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Author Topic:   A Few Questions For Creationists
Vacate
Member (Idle past 4628 days)
Posts: 565
Joined: 10-01-2006


Message 72 of 86 (483111)
09-20-2008 2:08 AM
Reply to: Message 71 by dunsapy
09-20-2008 1:16 AM


That maybe ok for water, but water is not life. Life is what we are talking about.
Scientists however are trying to find out how life *could* arise from non-life. If it happened it didn't happen in one shot; chemicals -> life. The example of scientists making water from H and O is the same process that made life from non-life, but with many many more steps. The point is to not "make life from non life", at least not yet. The point is to find a plausible route that may have taken place to gradually become what we currently define as life.
Science is not attempting to pull a rabbit out of a chemical soup. Chemical reactions take place in nature without a guiding hand, no intelligence is required. Scientists today are simply trying to replicate what they think conditions where like far back in the past for the initial steps along the long path towards life. This does not imply that intelligence was required back then; the chemicals would have reacted regardless. You are confusing the attempts to replicate the conditions of the past with the past needing intelligence to produce results.
Lets say you model the flow of a river on your computer to simulate a real river (Or any similar idea). If your results produce the same flow, depth, curves, or other such similarities this does not change the fact that the river you modeled was a natural process. This is the same as scientists trying to replicate the conditions needed to produce (pre)life.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 71 by dunsapy, posted 09-20-2008 1:16 AM dunsapy has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 79 by dunsapy, posted 09-20-2008 5:13 PM Vacate has replied

Vacate
Member (Idle past 4628 days)
Posts: 565
Joined: 10-01-2006


Message 83 of 86 (483230)
09-20-2008 9:16 PM
Reply to: Message 79 by dunsapy
09-20-2008 5:13 PM


Actually I have done this on my computer. This is only a simulation. You can set up many parameters to simulate a river, science is pretty good at things like this.
Science is pretty good at things like that, glad we agree.
But this is not making life.
Right. That's why I said "The point is to find a plausible route that may have taken place to gradually become what we currently define as life."
So I hope that is taken care of.
Science does not know exactly what the atmosphere was like before life. It does not know, the soil conditions before life. It does not know what materials were around before life. Now if science wants to say the atmosphere was like the the soil was like this, and try to mix some material around to see if it will become life.
They don't know exactly, but with evidence that has been found I am confident they are on the right track. Once again however they are not trying to "mix some material around", that's just a strawman at this point. I would suggest you do some more reading before making such a conclusion.
They have only shown that it takes intelligence to make life. Assuming they were successful .
Thats quite the leap now that you have several analogies to work with. You are saying that modeling a river, or a hurricane, or migrating birds, or the movement of tectonic plates means that all these things are intelligent? If something can be modeled the subject of the model is intelligent?
It appears that you, as with armylngst in message 76, are simply stacking the deck to trump up your preconceived notions. You are insisting that if something happens and someone tries to see how it happened then that something by definition must have been intelligently created. Therefore as long as there is intelligence to be curious there must have been intelligence to create the focus of all curiousity. Lets face it, with a stance like that your awful close to the "because I said so" defense.
Edited by Vacate, : Formatting

This message is a reply to:
 Message 79 by dunsapy, posted 09-20-2008 5:13 PM dunsapy has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 86 by dunsapy, posted 09-21-2008 1:19 AM Vacate has not replied

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