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Author Topic:   A Few Questions For Creationists
AlphaOmegakid
Member (Idle past 1810 days)
Posts: 564
From: The city of God
Joined: 06-25-2008


Message 46 of 86 (483039)
09-19-2008 5:12 PM
Reply to: Message 45 by bluescat48
09-19-2008 4:49 PM


Re: The Answers are in Genesis
bluescat writes:

No it isn't, it would be faith based only if the finding was declared positive proof of in which there could be any possible otherwise account of thus is nonfalsifiable therefore would not be science and therefore faith based.

I'm not trying to be mean, but I cannot make any sense of this sentence. Could you restate it while being grammatically correct.


-AlphaOmegakid-
I am a child of the creator of the beginning and the end

This message is a reply to:
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Replies to this message:
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bluescat48
Member (Idle past 3123 days)
Posts: 2347
From: United States
Joined: 10-06-2007


Message 47 of 86 (483042)
09-19-2008 5:34 PM
Reply to: Message 46 by AlphaOmegakid
09-19-2008 5:12 PM


Re: The Answers are in GenesisTryit now
Try it now, AlphaOmegakid


There is no better love between 2 people than mutual respect for each other WT Young, 2002

Who gave anyone the authority to call me an authority on anything. WT Young, 1969


This message is a reply to:
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dunsapy
Member (Idle past 4584 days)
Posts: 76
Joined: 09-19-2008


Message 48 of 86 (483044)
09-19-2008 5:49 PM


quote:
How old is the earth (roughly)?
And how old is the universe?
How much have you yourself read or studied the Theory of Evolution?

from the bibles point of view the earth and universe can be of any age. The bible itself does not give a limitation. I have no problem with science and it's dating. ( except that when their readings maybe effected, by other influences, like radiation , darkness, underwater, of pressure.) Other wise they maybe OK.
Enough to know my way around. But I do use my own meanings, for words.
When I say evolution I mean the start of a single cell to what we see today. Abiogenesis is the start to life including spontaneous life, because at one point non life has to come to life,. Which to the laws of nature are impossible.
The bible uses the word kinds , of life. we are not told in the bible exactly how far kinds goes.
Science uses the words species, but science does not agree exactly where the lines of species are.
I have heard that science does not prove anything. Which makes it impotent.
True science and the bible get along just fine.

AlphaOmegakid
Member (Idle past 1810 days)
Posts: 564
From: The city of God
Joined: 06-25-2008


Message 49 of 86 (483046)
09-19-2008 6:03 PM
Reply to: Message 45 by bluescat48
09-19-2008 4:49 PM


Re: The Answers are in Genesis
bluescat writes:

No it isn't.It would be faith based only if the finding was declared positive proof of, in which there could be no possible otherwise account of, thus nonfalsifiable. Therefore it would not be science and would be faith based. That is why science relies on theories not proof.

I still am having difficulty understanding what you are saying. your statement...

It would be faith based only if the finding was declared positive proof of

This part is obviously false if it is the basis of your argument. Faith based things are never proven. Faith is a belief in something that is unseen or unproven.

Faith based concepts can be falsifiable, so I don't know what you mean by this either. If I hypothesize a young earth based on the Bible, that is faith based. It is also falsifiable. It is falsifiable because there is an observable earth, and there are scientific methods of measuring its age.

God-caused-things are unfalsifiable by definition. A belief in God is not the only faith based thing.

I would argue that all of the current hypotheses within abiogenesis are unfalsifiable. The hypotheses are not founded on phenomena, they are founded on philosophy. There is no observable repeatable phenomenon to work with to produce a falsification. You can't falsify a rationalization based on a philosophical approach. How can I falsify the self organization of a protocell or a population of evolving protocells when such phenomena don't exist, and and never have been observed?? Even the environment that would make these protocells possible is not known. This is why this stuff should not be taught.


This message is a reply to:
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Replies to this message:
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dunsapy
Member (Idle past 4584 days)
Posts: 76
Joined: 09-19-2008


Message 50 of 86 (483052)
09-19-2008 6:55 PM


quote:
This part is obviously false if it is the basis of your argument. Faith based things are never proven. Faith is a belief in something that is unseen or unproven.

That is what you call blind faith. If science can't prove anything then there understanding is blind faith.
In creation, design is the proof. It is not blind faith.

Replies to this message:
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 Message 52 by cavediver, posted 09-19-2008 7:20 PM dunsapy has not yet responded

Brian
Member (Idle past 3893 days)
Posts: 4659
From: Scotland
Joined: 10-22-2002


Message 51 of 86 (483054)
09-19-2008 7:04 PM
Reply to: Message 50 by dunsapy
09-19-2008 6:55 PM


not again!
If science can't prove anything

Science never claims to 'prove' anything.

In creation, design is the proof. It is not blind faith.

It isn't blind faith, it is a psychosis.


This message is a reply to:
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cavediver
Member (Idle past 2577 days)
Posts: 4129
From: UK
Joined: 06-16-2005


Message 52 of 86 (483060)
09-19-2008 7:20 PM
Reply to: Message 50 by dunsapy
09-19-2008 6:55 PM


In creation, design is the proof.

I'm sorry, what design?


This message is a reply to:
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AdminNosy
Administrator
Posts: 4754
From: Vancouver, BC, Canada
Joined: 11-11-2003


Message 53 of 86 (483065)
09-19-2008 7:55 PM
Reply to: Message 52 by cavediver
09-19-2008 7:20 PM


Watch the Topic!
There are a number of threads regarding design. Perhaps you should all take that subtopic there.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 52 by cavediver, posted 09-19-2008 7:20 PM cavediver has not yet responded

dunsapy
Member (Idle past 4584 days)
Posts: 76
Joined: 09-19-2008


Message 54 of 86 (483082)
09-19-2008 10:34 PM


quote:
There are a number of threads regarding design. Perhaps you should all take that subtopic there.
I started a new topic, I call it the Dunsapy Theory. I want people here to try to rip it to shreds.

it's here.

www.evcforum.net/cgi-bin/dm.cgi?action=msg&f=25&t=3797&m=1 -->www.evcforum.net/cgi-bin/dm.cgi?action=msg&f=25&t=3797&m=1">http://www.evcforum.net/cgi-bin/dm.cgi?action=msg&f=25&t=3797&m=1

a couple of questions on the forum format, can I select text an make it a quote with one click, or do I have to type the command [quote] around the text. The same with bolding?

The other question is The new topic I started looks to me like in a protected place, does it get out to the regular board later, or what happens.

Edited by dunsapy, : No reason given.


Replies to this message:
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RAZD
Member (Idle past 339 days)
Posts: 20714
From: the other end of the sidewalk
Joined: 03-14-2004


Message 55 of 86 (483084)
09-19-2008 10:41 PM
Reply to: Message 54 by dunsapy
09-19-2008 10:34 PM


Welcome to the fray, dunsapy.

a couple of questions on the forum format, can I select text an make it a quote with one click, or do I have to type the command [quote] around the text. The same with bolding?

You have to do it manually (as yet, the program keeps evolving).

type [qs]quotes are easy[/qs] and it becomes:

quotes are easy

or type [quote]quotes are easy[/quote] and it becomes:

quote:
quotes are easy

also check out (help) links on any formating questions when in the reply window.

For other formating tips see Posting Tips

type: [url=http://insert_your_url_here]this message is linked to an url[/url]
and it becomes: this message is linked to an url (one with even more posting tips).

Enjoy.


we are limited in our ability to understand
by our ability to understand
Rebel American Zen Deist
... to learn ... to think ... to live ... to laugh ...
to share.


• • • Join the effort to solve medical problems, AIDS/HIV, Cancer and more with Team EvC! (click) • • •

This message is a reply to:
 Message 54 by dunsapy, posted 09-19-2008 10:34 PM dunsapy has not yet responded

RAZD
Member (Idle past 339 days)
Posts: 20714
From: the other end of the sidewalk
Joined: 03-14-2004


Message 56 of 86 (483085)
09-19-2008 10:45 PM
Reply to: Message 54 by dunsapy
09-19-2008 10:34 PM


I started a new topic, I call it the Dunsapy Theory. I want people here to try to rip it to shreds.

If I put two rabbits on a table and they mate, does that mean that I designed the offspring? Does it mean the purpose I was created for was putting rabbits on tables?

http://onegoodmove.org/fallacy/toc.htm

Enjoy.


we are limited in our ability to understand
by our ability to understand
Rebel American Zen Deist
... to learn ... to think ... to live ... to laugh ...
to share.


• • • Join the effort to solve medical problems, AIDS/HIV, Cancer and more with Team EvC! (click) • • •

This message is a reply to:
 Message 54 by dunsapy, posted 09-19-2008 10:34 PM dunsapy has not yet responded

bluescat48
Member (Idle past 3123 days)
Posts: 2347
From: United States
Joined: 10-06-2007


Message 57 of 86 (483086)
09-19-2008 11:12 PM
Reply to: Message 49 by AlphaOmegakid
09-19-2008 6:03 PM


Re: The Answers are in Genesis
Faith is a belief in something that is unseen or unproven.

That is the point if one states that a scientific theory is proven, then it is on faith since all theories are falsifiable

I would argue that all of the current hypotheses within abiogenesis are unfalsifiable.

Why? If would be falsifiable if one could find evidence that under no conditions of the possibilities of a primal atmosphere which the substances such as purines, pyrimidines, amino acids, pentose sugars, etc could be be formed.

Edited by bluescat48, : wrong quote


There is no better love between 2 people than mutual respect for each other WT Young, 2002

Who gave anyone the authority to call me an authority on anything. WT Young, 1969


This message is a reply to:
 Message 49 by AlphaOmegakid, posted 09-19-2008 6:03 PM AlphaOmegakid has not yet responded

dunsapy
Member (Idle past 4584 days)
Posts: 76
Joined: 09-19-2008


Message 58 of 86 (483087)
09-19-2008 11:13 PM


thanks RAZD
that helped.

dunsapy
Member (Idle past 4584 days)
Posts: 76
Joined: 09-19-2008


Message 59 of 86 (483088)
09-19-2008 11:15 PM


If I put two rabbits on a table and they mate, does that mean that I designed the offspring? Does it mean the purpose I was created for was putting rabbits on tables?

The rabbits are life, life comes from life. This is a natural law.

Replies to this message:
 Message 67 by RAZD, posted 09-20-2008 12:41 AM dunsapy has not yet responded

dunsapy
Member (Idle past 4584 days)
Posts: 76
Joined: 09-19-2008


Message 60 of 86 (483089)
09-19-2008 11:19 PM


Faith is a belief in something that is unseen or unproven.

That is blind faith,.
Real faith is the assured expectation, of something.
You cann't see wind but you can see the results of wind.
You have faith there is wind.

Replies to this message:
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