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Author Topic:   Darwin's Debt to Christianity
anglagard
Member (Idle past 836 days)
Posts: 2339
From: Socorro, New Mexico USA
Joined: 03-18-2006


Message 23 of 56 (471005)
06-13-2008 11:43 PM
Reply to: Message 20 by no1nose
06-13-2008 3:50 PM


Coincidence and Filtering
no1nose writes:
I am trying to point out that despite many differences both Evolution and Christianity are about the transformation of one species into another. For Christianity it is the creation of the new man.
The term 'new man' has also been used by Marx in referring to the goal of communism and by Nietzsche in reference to the ubermensch or superman. Would you also like for Christianity to take credit for their ideas as well?
Darwin’s scenario begins with one member being different at birth. This follows Christianity as Jesus was different - being conceived by the Holy Spirit. In Evolution this “mutation” gives the individual an advantage in survival.
I don't recall Jesus having passed the ultimate test of Darwinian 'survival of the fittest,' namely passing his genes onto any progeny. Do you know something no one else does about Jesus having kids? Perhaps you are referring to ideas more than a given genetic code. {ABE - OK, having reread the OP, I see you are referring to the latter}
Having been raised from the dead proves that Jesus was a survivor.
Sorry, I don't recall a return from the dead being part of Darwin's TOE.
Finally in evolution the member of a species are not like this new individual becomes “extinct”. This too follows the Christianity in that those who do not accept Jesus are lost. Please note that none of these ideas are self evident in the natural world. They are read into it by Darwin’s preconceived Christian ideas.
From Wikipedia on evolution:
quote:
Evolutionary ideas such as common descent and the transmutation of species have existed since at least the 6th century BC, when they were expounded by the Greek philosopher Anaximander.[165] Others who considered such ideas included the Greek philosopher Empedocles, the Roman philosopher-poet Lucretius, the Arab biologist Al-Jahiz,[166] the Persian philosopher Ibn Miskawayh, the Brethren of Purity,[167] and the Eastern philosopher Zhuangzi.[168]
So how did these guys figure out the basics of evolution without benefit of the Christian religion if the Christian belief system is required as a prerequisite?
The survival issues that face humanity are hunger, overpopulation, war, disease. Even from an evolutionary point of view if everyone became like Jesus there would be no hunger because he was able to feed people. Neither would be there be sickness, war or death. The same can not be said for Buddha, Mohamed, or Moses or anyone else one can think of. So even from an evolutionary point of view Jesus is the one.
If everyone became as Buddha, achieved Nirvana, and escaped eternal reincarnation, would they not also be no sickness, war or death? If the members of Heaven's Gate had truly gone to the UFO behind comet Hale-Bopp as they believe, would they not have escaped sickness, war or death? I think the last paragraph is more preaching from a presumed final authority on truth rather than someone who seeks to discover truth through logical debate.
Sorry, I consider your observations nothing more than coincidence with a lot of filtering of facts to support a preconceived notion. Got anything more than this to support your thesis?
Oh, and welcome to EvC.
Edited by anglagard, : No reason given.

Read not to contradict and confute, not to believe and take for granted, not to find talk and discourse, but to weigh and consider - Francis Bacon
The more we understand particular things, the more we understand God - Spinoza

This message is a reply to:
 Message 20 by no1nose, posted 06-13-2008 3:50 PM no1nose has not replied

  
anglagard
Member (Idle past 836 days)
Posts: 2339
From: Socorro, New Mexico USA
Joined: 03-18-2006


Message 26 of 56 (471031)
06-14-2008 1:54 AM
Reply to: Message 25 by no1nose
06-14-2008 12:51 AM


Possible and Actual Motives
no1nose writes:
What is the problem with recognizing the parallels between Christianity and Evolution?
I have no problem with discussing the possible parallels between Christianity and evolution, the problem I have is any blanket statement that the concept of evolution requires Christianity, or that evolution somehow provides some irrefutable proof of Christianity in absence of sufficient evidence to make such a claim. You may not have explicitly stated that this is the purpose of this thread, but I have discerned that it may be a possibility and seek to let you know the case for either assertion may not be as easy as you may assume.
At any rate here is as good a place as any for such a debate, give it your best shot.

Read not to contradict and confute, not to believe and take for granted, not to find talk and discourse, but to weigh and consider - Francis Bacon
The more we understand particular things, the more we understand God - Spinoza

This message is a reply to:
 Message 25 by no1nose, posted 06-14-2008 12:51 AM no1nose has not replied

  
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