THE Ultimate Theory

My question: Why must the answer be black or white? After much thought, I have come up with an idea: Why don't both sides come together, stop pouting verses and calling names, anmd work together to figure out a correct theory?My personal theory is this:(ahem)DNA is real. We can watch bacteria create antibiotic resistance, which is much like the steps of evolution. So, I think that evolution is a real deal.HOWEVER, I am Christian, I am discovering God. It is near impossible for me to imagine the nothingness before the big bang, or all of us just up and disappearing when we die.THE BIG BANG: GOD SPOKE AND (BANG!) IT HAPPENEDProve to me that God didn't create the Big Bang.Genisis says the earth was created is six days. If God lives forever, who says that a million years isn't but a day to him? In the scientific theoryu of how the earth is created, the earth was formed out of the dust of the Bang, and then rain covered the earth, then later, life started on earth.I belive that God made the Big Bang, that he guided evolution along it's course, and that at some point he put his likeness, a soul, into a primate and made him human. Created in the image of God. God has no physical form, his image is in his spirit.THE ENDHelp me out here guys! I want you to tell me what you think, and to criticize my theory.Over time, this theory will grow and ferment into a beautiful solution, that might end the necesity for the EvCforum.net website. Please respond!

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Originally posted by fastwheels86:
DNA is real. We can watch bacteria create antibiotic resistance, which is much like the steps of evolution. So, I think that evolution is a real deal.

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Good for you.

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Originally posted by fastwheels86:
HOWEVER, I am Christian, I am discovering God. It is near impossible for me to imagine the nothingness before the big bang, or all of us just up and disappearing when we die.

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Just because you can't 'imagine' something doesn't mean it can't or didn't happen. However, Relativity predicts that time began with the Big Bang, so the physical universe has quite literally existed for all time. On the other hand, if you subscribe to biblical creation then there was a 'nothingness' before God created so why are you a Christian? Afterall, it is near impossible for you to imagine this.

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Originally posted by fastwheels86:
THE BIG BANG: GOD SPOKE AND (BANG!) IT HAPPENED

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Prove to me that God didn't create the Big Bang.

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Science doesn't 'prove' anything, it provides evidence. However, you are the one claiming that God was involved, therefore it is up to you to provide evidence of this.

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Originally posted by fastwheels86:
Genisis says the earth was created is six days. If God lives forever, who says that a million years isn't but a day to him? In the scientific theoryu of how the earth is created, the earth was formed out of the dust of the Bang, and then rain covered the earth, then later, life started on earth.

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Maybe you should read up a little before attempting a the Theory of Everything.If God said 'days' when he actually ment 'millions of years' then he is deliberately misleading us. Something he would be morally precluded from doing if he really is the source of all that is good.

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Originally posted by fastwheels86:
I belive that God made the Big Bang, that he guided evolution along it's course, and that at some point he put his likeness, a soul, into a primate and made him human. Created in the image of God. God has no physical form, his image is in his spirit.

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1) Provide evidence for Gods existence.
2) Provide evidence that he was involved in the BB.
3) Provide evidence of his guidence during the course of evolution.
4) Provide evidence that a 'soul' exists.If you want to include God in a scientific theort you will have to do this and much more before your 'theory' would even be considered. A collection of beliefs and assertions, like that which you have presented here, will get nowhere in the scientific community.

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Originally posted by fastwheels86:

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Prove to me that God didn't create the Big Bang.

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Prove to me that Zorquan XVIII, the Galactic Goat, Destroyer of Worlds, Creator of Universes, didn't create the big bang. Until then, I'll assume he/she did, OK?Maybe that's an unreasonable thing to ask, so why don't we start by showing that these beings DID create the big bang. I'm drawing a blank. You?Mark------------------
Occam's razor is not for shaving with.

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Originally posted by fastwheels86:
1)DNA is real. We can watch bacteria create antibiotic resistance, which is much like the steps of evolution. So, I think that evolution is a real deal.

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2)HOWEVER, I am Christian, I am discovering God. It is near impossible for me to imagine the nothingness before the big bang, or all of us just up and disappearing when we die.

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3)Prove to me that God didn't create the Big Bang.

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4)Genesis says the earth was created is six days. If God lives forever, who says that a million years isn't but a day to him? In the scientific theory of how the earth is created, the earth was formed out of the dust of the Bang, and then rain covered the earth, then later, life started on earth.

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5)I belive that God made the Big Bang, that he guided evolution along it's course, and that at some point he put his likeness, a soul, into a primate and made him human. Created in the image of God. God has no physical form, his image is in his spirit.

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1)Yep...2)Its just space time with zero curvature...3)Prove to me he did....Because nothing can be observed before the end of the Planck era nobody can "prove" anything about events during and preceding it...Your best bet is to show that Quantum vaccum Fluctuation is an insufficient explanation of universal origins....4)More like material from a supernova....But yes the whole sloar system coalesced out of a large cloud of matter, the fact that iron is so abundant implys that it wasn`t the original "dust" from the Big Bang, given that iron is produced through nuclear reactions in the stellar interior of BIG stars this seems a good bet, but it was "dust" from a supernova...As for rain "covering the earth" if you mean oceans forming then yes if you mean some sort of complete covering we would have to ask Joe Meert but I think you are wrong....5)Um, if he guided evolution along its course why do we have so much "junk" DNA?Look bud you can believe what you want but your "theory" is not testable for reason noted above, namely that no observations can be made of events before the end of the Planck era, and is thus not scientific....Sorry....

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[This message has been edited by joz, 05-03-2002]

Hey there fastwheels! Don't let these mean old atheistic evolutionists scare you away from believing in God. I'd just like to make a few comments."My question: Why must the answer be black or white?"I personally don't see why you wish to compromise with God's word, but I suppose the answer needn't be black and white."After much thought, I have come up with an idea: Why don't both sides come together, stop pouting verses and calling names, anmd work together to figure out a correct theory?"Don't claim the copyright just yet! Most Christian theologians wish to take this approach."DNA is real. We can watch bacteria create antibiotic resistance, which is much like the steps of evolution. So, I think that evolution is a real deal."I would like to suggest that observing 1)DNA and 2)Bacteria devoloping resistance is insufficient evidence in order to extrapolate to the conclusion 3)Evolution is the real deal."HOWEVER, I am Christian, I am discovering God."Good, don't let others dissuade you from your faith."THE BIG BANG: GOD SPOKE AND (BANG!) IT HAPPENED"I would like to suggest that this is not supported by God's word."Prove to me that God didn't create the Big Bang."Big mistake, you asked someone for proof. Of course, they will tell you that proof is impossible, and will want you to back up your claims, as some already have."Genisis says the earth was created is six days. If God lives forever, who says that a million years isn't but a day to him? In the scientific theoryu of how the earth is created, the earth was formed out of the dust of the Bang, and then rain covered the earth, then later, life started on earth."As compmage has mentioned, this is not all too compatible with scripture."I belive that God made the Big Bang, that he guided evolution along it's course, and that at some point he put his likeness, a soul, into a primate and made him human. Created in the image of God. God has no physical form, his image is in his spirit."This idea is fine, and to me it makes more sense than the atheistic world-view. But still I don't think it is all too compatible with scripture."Help me out here guys! I want you to tell me what you think, and to criticize my theory."You seem to hold a high regard for God's word, so I suggest that you needn't worry about compromise. In fact, in the bible, it is prophesized that scoffers will come and they will be willfully ignorant of the fact of creation. (Holy crap, I shouldn't of posted that. I'm going to piss alot of people off ) If you think the bible is true, then why is there any reason to compromise with scoffers and those that are willfully ignorant?THAT'S RIGHT- YOU ARE WILLFULLY IGNORANT SCOFFERS!!! Now they're really pissed!

Hi Cobra: Nice to see you back. While you're helping fastwheels with his bible study or whatever and dissing evolutionists, perhaps you'd care to dig up our old discussion? There's a fair amount of information there you should probably address...

Hi Quetzal, I finally finished my research paper.Well, I hope I didn't offend you too much, but I'll try to get a reply up soon.

Didn't offend me at all. I've been insulted by some of the greatest minds alive. I'll look forward to reading your response.

"Didn't offend me at all. I've been insulted by some of the greatest minds alive. "
--Aww Shucks Quetzal, you didn't have to go and say that . (don't laugh too hard now)------------------

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[This message has been edited by TrueCreation, 05-04-2002]

I don't have a problem with your 'theistic evolution' views.All of the religious stuff you mention is outside the realm of science and we have no way of knowing if they are true or not. They are religious belief, but they do not claim to be scientific, so I have not a single problem with them.I only get going when religion tries to pass itself off as science.

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"HOWEVER, I am Christian, I am discovering God."

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Good, don't let others dissuade you from your faith.

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(playing devil's advocate, here)Why not?Others persuaded you towards your faith.I mean, most people believe in their particular religion because they were taught to, usually by their parents but there are also very strong cultural influences.That is why people in Italy are almost all Catholic, people in India are almost all Hindu, and people in Saudi Arabia are almost all Muslim.People in Mexico and South America used to have their own religions until Christianity was forced on them by the conqering Europeans. The same thing has happened over and over throughout the history of civilisation.Religion has much more to do with what you are taught than anything else, just like what language you speak or what clothes you wear or what social conventions you adhere to (like bowing in Japan vs. handshake in the US vs. kissing in France).If influence from outside sources was OK for getting into religion, why is it not ok for getting out of it?------------------
"We will still have perfect freedom to hold contrary views of our own, but to simply
close our minds to the knowledge painstakingly accumulated by hundreds of thousands
of scientists over long centuries is to deliberately decide to be ignorant and narrow-
minded."-Steve Allen, from "Dumbth"

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Originally posted by TrueCreation:
"Didn't offend me at all. I've been insulted by some of the greatest minds alive. "
--Aww Shucks Quetzal, you didn't have to go and say that . (don't laugh too hard now)

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Okay, let me rephrase that. "I've been insulted by some of the greatest minds alive, and also by TC."

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Originally posted by schrafinator:
(playing devil's advocate, here)

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Why not?

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Well, shrafinator, I suppose it's because I am a Christian. As a Christian, I deeply hope that fastwheels is not dissuaded from his faith. I also hope that you accept the Christian religion. Perhaps it's all brainwashing, and perhaps not, but in my mind I'm right and I am very serious about what I believe. I also think it's very unfortunate that people who were brought up by the Christian religion only to reject their faith later on.

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Originally posted by Cobra_snake:
Well, shrafinator, I suppose it's because I am a Christian. As a Christian, I deeply hope that fastwheels is not dissuaded from his faith. I also hope that you accept the Christian religion. Perhaps it's all brainwashing, and perhaps not, but in my mind I'm right and I am very serious about what I believe. I also think it's very unfortunate that people who were brought up by the Christian religion only to reject their faith later on.

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And I find it unfortunate that generally intelligent individuals are unwilling or incapable of breaking their religious mental constraints and seeing the world the way it actually is.------------------
compmage

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Originally posted by schrafinator:
I don't have a problem with your 'theistic evolution' views.

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All of the religious stuff you mention is outside the realm of science and we have no way of knowing if they are true or not. They are religious belief, but they do not claim to be scientific, so I have not a single problem with them.

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I only get going when religion tries to pass itself off as science.

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There is a scientific way of knowing if religion is true. Die. Then everything would be clear. Problem is, nobody returns alive to publish the results in scientific literature

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[This message has been edited by Andya Primanda, 05-28-2002]