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Author Topic:   Creation Evidence Museums...
crashfrog
Inactive Member


Message 61 of 117 (106215)
05-07-2004 5:29 AM
Reply to: Message 58 by almeyda
05-07-2004 1:27 AM


If the earth could be proved how old it really was then Evolutionists would not change the age of the earth never.

It was creationists, though, who first came up with such long esitmates of the Earth's age. Bible-believing creationists. But you know what the difference between them and Ken Ham is? They based their conclusions on the evidence. Ken Ham and his ilk do the opposite.

The fact that it was creationists that first rejected literal Biblical timelines rather disproves your argument about "assumptions", doesn't it?


This message is a reply to:
 Message 58 by almeyda, posted 05-07-2004 1:27 AM almeyda has not yet responded

  
jar
Member
Posts: 30979
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004
Member Rating: 4.9


Message 62 of 117 (106261)
05-07-2004 10:38 AM
Reply to: Message 60 by almeyda
05-07-2004 5:08 AM


Re: Assertions
almeyda

Just a personal note from one Christian to another.

Right now you are a New Christian and very, very early in your experience. There are a great number of Creationists that are telling you things that are simply wrong, that they know are wrong and that they continue to support ONLY because they have a vested interest.

If you stick around here, if you continue explore that wonderful world we live in, you will find that these people really have lied to you.

Do not let that shake your faith in GOD.

There is no conflict between evolution and Christianity. Just walk the path. Take small steps. Don't take on all at once but instead set a series of mileposts.

As an example, you might want to follow your exploration in an order similar to:

  • what is the evidence for the age of the Universe?
  • what can I observe that will confirm or deny the age of the Universe?
  • what is the age of the Earth?
  • what exactly are fossils and how were they made?
  • what does the fossil record show?
  • how do people date fossils?
  • do they use more than one method so that they can cross check results?

Just remember one thing. There is nothing in Evolution Theory that is a real challenge to Christianity. There are many, many Christians that also are Evolutionists and as you eventually come around to understanding Evolution you will find that there is no need to abandon Christianity for Evolution. That is something you will never be asked of expected to do.


Aslan is not a Tame Lion
This message is a reply to:
 Message 60 by almeyda, posted 05-07-2004 5:08 AM almeyda has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 63 by almeyda, posted 05-08-2004 12:44 AM jar has responded

  
almeyda
Inactive Member


Message 63 of 117 (106511)
05-08-2004 12:44 AM
Reply to: Message 62 by jar
05-07-2004 10:38 AM


Re: Assertions
The reason i stand up for the Bible is because if i cant trust it in whatever it says then why should i trust it at all?. God says he clearly made the world in 7 days but Evolution suggests naturalism. How are they compatible?. God says man descended from Adam & Eve. Are you saying Adam & Eve were the first two people of our evolutionary heritage?. I dont see that they are compatible. More over Evolution becomes a foundation of society while Christianity is moved aside. Arent we defeating our own religion?. Im not standing for the Bible even though Evolution says something else. Evolution is theory and does not carry enough proof & authority to prove it as fact it is still relied heavily on presuppositions. Evolution being naturalistic how could there be a God if no supernaturalism exist? God then just becomes an idea made up for people who need some sort of belief. This is just not the case. The Bible is Gods revelation to man and i will stand up for all Gods words until proven otherwise. How can you call yourself a Christian if you dont believe everything God told you? More over in another thread you said the Bible isnt all God or something similar to this but the Bible is Gods only relevation to man. Unless you accept all other false religion. Jar you seem to be in some sort new age philosophy?.
This message is a reply to:
 Message 62 by jar, posted 05-07-2004 10:38 AM jar has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 64 by crashfrog, posted 05-08-2004 2:04 AM almeyda has responded
 Message 79 by jar, posted 05-08-2004 10:08 AM almeyda has responded

  
crashfrog
Inactive Member


Message 64 of 117 (106522)
05-08-2004 2:04 AM
Reply to: Message 63 by almeyda
05-08-2004 12:44 AM


The reason i stand up for the Bible is because if i cant trust it in whatever it says then why should i trust it at all?.

It's called "faith", Almeyda. It's the faith that inaccuracies in the Bible will be no obstacle to God relaying his message to you.

There's some kinds of faith that I don't have respect for, and personally, I choose to live without faith. But a faith that's more concerned about taking to heart God's personal message to you rather than splitting hairs about what's literally true in a book never intended to be a science textbook? That's the sort of faith that I envy - that I would seek, if I only believed God existed.

Forget what the Bible says about the world. Don't you think you should worry more about what God is trying to say about you?


This message is a reply to:
 Message 63 by almeyda, posted 05-08-2004 12:44 AM almeyda has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 65 by almeyda, posted 05-08-2004 4:30 AM crashfrog has responded

  
almeyda
Inactive Member


Message 65 of 117 (106531)
05-08-2004 4:30 AM
Reply to: Message 64 by crashfrog
05-08-2004 2:04 AM


...
God tells us that his words are pure & perfect. If he didnt make the world. He has no authority over me. If lied than he could be lying about the whole book. In fact if its all a lie how can it be a true God?. I did not join this religion out of blind faith. I joined because the Bible had the evidence to back it all up. If Evolution was fact i would not believe in God. Scientist were not there when it happened. And explaining it in terms of nothing made everything is something that is very very hard to explain. Coming up with everything after this of course can be easily interpreted within evidence found. We must remember what God asked Job "Where wast thou when i laid the foundations of the earth?, declare if thou hast understanding".(Job 38:4) or Jesus "If i have told you earthly things, and ye believe not, how shall ye believe, if i tell you of heavenly things?" John 3:12 . Hebrews 4:12 speaks about Gods words dividing what your thoughts & heart wants. I feel this is relevant because so many just dont want God in there lives and are happy with Evolution however i made it clear how its a matter of which ones the truth. You spoke about faith and that you choose to live without it but Evolution requires alot of faith indeed. Many say even more than Creationists.
This message is a reply to:
 Message 64 by crashfrog, posted 05-08-2004 2:04 AM crashfrog has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 66 by crashfrog, posted 05-08-2004 4:52 AM almeyda has responded
 Message 78 by JonF, posted 05-08-2004 9:30 AM almeyda has responded

  
crashfrog
Inactive Member


Message 66 of 117 (106535)
05-08-2004 4:52 AM
Reply to: Message 65 by almeyda
05-08-2004 4:30 AM


If Evolution was fact i would not believe in God.

Why not? Why does evolution preclude God?

See, here's your problem. You've set up a false dichotomy - you erroneously believe that evolution and God can't both be true. Since you want to believe in God, you close your mind to evolution.

Plenty of people believe in both evolution and God, because they're not contradictory. Why can't you?


This message is a reply to:
 Message 65 by almeyda, posted 05-08-2004 4:30 AM almeyda has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 67 by almeyda, posted 05-08-2004 5:09 AM crashfrog has responded

  
almeyda
Inactive Member


Message 67 of 117 (106538)
05-08-2004 5:09 AM
Reply to: Message 66 by crashfrog
05-08-2004 4:52 AM


...
Christians who believe in Evolution have compromised their religion. Evolutionists speak out "Evolution is fact" so christians reinterpret the Bible. We shouldnt have to reinterpret the Holy Bible because of man orientated theories. If it was proven evolution occured i would not only belive evolution i would reject the Bible. How exactly does God fit in to a natural evolutionary world?. Besides an idea dreamt up for some sort of purpose?. No supernaturalism exists remember. How are they compatible?.
This message is a reply to:
 Message 66 by crashfrog, posted 05-08-2004 4:52 AM crashfrog has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 68 by crashfrog, posted 05-08-2004 5:19 AM almeyda has responded

  
crashfrog
Inactive Member


Message 68 of 117 (106539)
05-08-2004 5:19 AM
Reply to: Message 67 by almeyda
05-08-2004 5:09 AM


Christians who believe in Evolution have compromised their religion.

You're hardly in a position to know what they have or haven't done with their religion, don't you think? Unless you're a mind reader or something?

How exactly does God fit in to a natural evolutionary world?

You'd have to ask them to be sure, but my guess is, they believe that God is subtle, like it says he is in the Bible, and that he works through other means and not directly, like it says he does in the Bible. In other words, God is the soverign creator of the universe in which evolution occurs, like it says he is in the Bible.

No supernaturalism exists remember.

That's not a statement of evolution, nor is it one that is implied by evolution being true. Naturalism isn't the view that the supernatural doesn't exist. It's the view that natural events are best described as being caused by natural phenomena.

That has nothing to do with the existence of the supernatural. The supernatural, by definition, is beyond science's power to say whether or not it exists.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 67 by almeyda, posted 05-08-2004 5:09 AM almeyda has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 69 by almeyda, posted 05-08-2004 5:52 AM crashfrog has not yet responded

  
almeyda
Inactive Member


Message 69 of 117 (106541)
05-08-2004 5:52 AM
Reply to: Message 68 by crashfrog
05-08-2004 5:19 AM


...
God teaches he made the world and everything in it. He did not make the first cell for evolution to evolve. God took dust and made a man. Anything about God using evolution comes from outside extra biblical interpretations and compromise. I dont see this need because we are finding evidence for a literal genesis. Evolutionist have not disproved the evidence it just doesnt fit there view. Anyway our debate has really prolonged i can barely remember what we are arguing about.. Ohh i remember now , is evolution right or is creation right.
This message is a reply to:
 Message 68 by crashfrog, posted 05-08-2004 5:19 AM crashfrog has not yet responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 70 by mark24, posted 05-08-2004 6:04 AM almeyda has responded

  
mark24
Member (Idle past 3357 days)
Posts: 3857
From: UK
Joined: 12-01-2001


Message 70 of 117 (106542)
05-08-2004 6:04 AM
Reply to: Message 69 by almeyda
05-08-2004 5:52 AM


Re: ...
almeyda,

I dont see this need because we are finding evidence for a literal genesis.

What evidence do you have for created kinds & a 6,000 year old earth.

Mark

This message has been edited by mark24, 05-08-2004 05:08 AM


"Physical Reality of Matchette’s EVOLUTIONARY zero-atom-unit in a transcendental c/e illusion" - Brad McFall
This message is a reply to:
 Message 69 by almeyda, posted 05-08-2004 5:52 AM almeyda has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 71 by almeyda, posted 05-08-2004 6:43 AM mark24 has responded

    
almeyda
Inactive Member


Message 71 of 117 (106545)
05-08-2004 6:43 AM
Reply to: Message 70 by mark24
05-08-2004 6:04 AM


Re: ...
Im not an expert i know a bit but id rather go to the source.

http://www.answersingenesis.org/home/area/faq/young.asp

Evidences for a young earth:

1.According to evolutionary theory, comets are supposed to be the same age as the solar system, about 5 billion years. Yet each time a comet orbits close to the sun, it loses so much of its material that it could not survive much longer than about 100,000 years. Many comets have typical ages of 10,000 years

2.The total energy stored in the Earth’s magnetic field has steadily decreased by a factor of 2.7 over the past 1000 years.Evolutionary theories explaining this rapid decrease, as well as how the Earth could have maintained its magnetic field for billions of years, are very complex and inadequate.

3.All naturally-occurring families of radioactive elements generate helium as they decay. If such decay took place for billions of years, as alleged by evolutionists, much helium should have found its way into the Earth’s atmosphere. The rate of loss of helium from the atmosphere into space is calculable and small. Taking that loss into account, the atmosphere today has only 0.05% of the amount of helium it would have accumulated in 5 billion years.21 This means the atmosphere is much younger than the alleged evolutionary age. A study published in the Journal of Geophysical Research shows that helium produced by radioactive decay in deep, hot rocks has not had time to escape. Though the rocks are supposed to be over one billion years old, their large helium retention suggests an age of only thousands of years

3.Evolutionary anthropologists say that the stone age lasted for at least 100,000 years, during which time the world population of Neanderthal and Cro-magnon men was roughly constant, between 1 and 10 million. All that time they were burying their dead with artefacts. By this scenario, they would have buried at least 4 billion bodies. If the evolutionary time scale is correct, buried bones should be able to last for much longer than 100,000 years, so many of the supposed 4 billion stone age skeletons should still be around (and certainly the buried artefacts). Yet only a few thousand have been found. This implies that the stone age was much shorter than evolutionists think, a few hundred years in many areas.

4.According to evolutionists, stone age man existed for 100,000 years before beginning to make written records about 4000 to 5000 years ago. Prehistoric man built megalithic monuments, made beautiful cave paintings, and kept records of lunar phases. Why would he wait a thousand centuries before using the same skills to record history? The Biblical time scale is much more likely


This message is a reply to:
 Message 70 by mark24, posted 05-08-2004 6:04 AM mark24 has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 72 by crashfrog, posted 05-08-2004 7:29 AM almeyda has responded
 Message 77 by mark24, posted 05-08-2004 8:30 AM almeyda has responded

  
crashfrog
Inactive Member


Message 72 of 117 (106550)
05-08-2004 7:29 AM
Reply to: Message 71 by almeyda
05-08-2004 6:43 AM


Look, if all you're going to do is say "I've got all this evidence for creationism" and then, when asked for it, say "I can't support it but you should read AiG", then a lot of us wish you wouldn't post at all.

Do you honestly believe that we've never been to the AiG website? That it's new information to us? Hell, Almeyda, we read that website for laughs every weekend around my house. It's hilarious to us how they attempt to misinform and spread such obvious untruths.

They're going to find it a little less funny around my house when I tell them that there's people like you, however, who accept all their garbage without question.

Almeyda, none of what you've presented is new to us. It's all the same tired arguments we've seen refuted again and again. It's amazing that you thought AiG was some kind of big secret that we hadn't seen.

Here, why don't you check out a site called "No Answers in Genesis" and examine it with an open mind for once?

http://home.austarnet.com.au/stear/default.htm


This message is a reply to:
 Message 71 by almeyda, posted 05-08-2004 6:43 AM almeyda has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 73 by almeyda, posted 05-08-2004 7:38 AM crashfrog has responded

  
almeyda
Inactive Member


Message 73 of 117 (106553)
05-08-2004 7:38 AM
Reply to: Message 72 by crashfrog
05-08-2004 7:29 AM


...
What an evolutionary propaganda filled website. The fact that they dont acknowledge Creation as science is enough to stop me reading anymore.

"Nothing in biology makes sense except in the light of evolution" - A scientist does not need to believe nothing become everything to be a biologist. However if he believes in Evolution then yes he needs to adopt evolution.

"Our loyalties are to the species and the planet.
We speak for Earth. Our obligation to survive is
owed not just to ourselves but also to that Cosmos,
ancient and vast, from which we spring".- Evolutionists have decided to explain the earth naturally. Therefore the evidence must fit this framework. The earth must! be old. The fossils must show evolution. Once again facts are interpreted. No supernaturalism is allowed!.

"Evolution is the GUT (GRAND UNIFYING THEORY) of biology. It is the bedrock principle of our scientific understanding of the natural laws that govern life. Furthermore, it is logically necessary for life's survival in a changing world environment. To deny this scientific principle is analogous to believing that
the earth is the center of the universe!" - There is no life in no other planets. Yes in mars yes in mars they say!. Well not this day at least theres been no life.

"The tragedy of young-earth creationism is that it takes a relatively recent and extreme view of Genesis, applies to it an unjustified scientific gloss, and then asks sincere and well-meaning seekers to swallow this whole, despite the massive discordance with decades of scientific evidence from multiple disciplines. Is it any wonder that many sadly turn away from faith concluding that they cannot believe in a God who asks for an abandonment of logic and reason?" - Evolution is not fact! The earth must be billions of yrs old. No matter what. Whatever evidence is found it must be billions of yrs. Dead bones found,limited dating methods but they still become 80billion yrs old...? Why? Because it must fit there view of an evolutionary coming of the universe. Facts no not speak for themselves

Charles Darwin - Why does he get this glory of Evolution? Many scientists wrote before Darwin on subjects of evolution,natural selection,long ages etc.

THAT WEBSITE IS FILLED WITH NOTHING BUT PROPAGANDA. TO INDOCTRINATE THE WORLD THAT EVOLUTION IS FACT,EVOLUTION IS THE ONLY SCIENCE AND EXPLANATION, CREATION IS NOT SCIENCE CREATION IS NONSENSE

This message has been edited by almeyda, 05-08-2004 06:53 AM


This message is a reply to:
 Message 72 by crashfrog, posted 05-08-2004 7:29 AM crashfrog has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 74 by crashfrog, posted 05-08-2004 7:45 AM almeyda has responded

  
crashfrog
Inactive Member


Message 74 of 117 (106554)
05-08-2004 7:45 AM
Reply to: Message 73 by almeyda
05-08-2004 7:38 AM


What an evolutionary propaganda filled website.

I'm sorry, you must have misunderstood me. I said read it "with an open mind", not "with your Creation-brand anti-scientific blinders on."

This is why creationism isn't a science. Arguments you can't refute are just propaganda to you. It doesn't matter to you what the evidence says - you've already made up your mind, and anyone who disagrees with you is automatically wrong.

Closing your eyes and sticking your fingers in your ears isn't going to get you very far around here.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 73 by almeyda, posted 05-08-2004 7:38 AM almeyda has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 75 by almeyda, posted 05-08-2004 7:59 AM crashfrog has responded

  
almeyda
Inactive Member


Message 75 of 117 (106557)
05-08-2004 7:59 AM
Reply to: Message 74 by crashfrog
05-08-2004 7:45 AM


...
BUT THAT IS EXACTLY WHAT EVOLUTIONISTS DO!...EVOLUTIONISTS WOULD NEVER ACCEPT SOMETHING FROM A CREATIONIST..THEY ALSO MADE THERE MINDS AND ARE NOT PREPARED TO CHANGE.THEY ARE BOTH SCIENCE,THEY ARE BOTH BIASED,BOTH FACTS ARE INTEPRETED BUT WHICH ONE IS TRUTH???????? Evolution is not fact! If the evidence fitted overwhelmingly why is it not fact?. Creationists have a better time at calling it fact because they can say yes just like God said. Creation is also not fact but our faith is alot less blind
This message is a reply to:
 Message 74 by crashfrog, posted 05-08-2004 7:45 AM crashfrog has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 76 by crashfrog, posted 05-08-2004 8:18 AM almeyda has not yet responded

  
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