Register | Sign In


Understanding through Discussion


EvC Forum active members: 65 (9162 total)
7 online now:
Newest Member: popoi
Post Volume: Total: 915,815 Year: 3,072/9,624 Month: 917/1,588 Week: 100/223 Day: 11/17 Hour: 0/0


Thread  Details

Email This Thread
Newer Topic | Older Topic
  
Author Topic:   Have we halted our own Evolution?
U can call me Cookie
Member (Idle past 4953 days)
Posts: 228
From: jo'burg, RSA
Joined: 11-15-2005


Message 46 of 79 (298550)
03-27-2006 7:26 AM
Reply to: Message 45 by Phat
03-27-2006 6:42 AM


Re: Speculation
Physically, Phat, we look pretty much the same as we did then.
IF we became extinct, only the speculative ego-centrism of the human animal can imagine a universe going on its merry way without us and yet somehow stubbornly refusing to believe that God sent His one and only Son to save us. Yes....we are that special and paradoxically that needy!
Not really sure what you mean by this. Are you saying that it is the ego that allows us to envision a world without humanity? Could it not be said that it is the ego that causes such a humanless world to be unpalatable, if not unimaginable?
I do not deny that we are special, yet no more special than that atom floating past your nose right now. And i kinda agree, we need all the help we can get!
Of course, as you emphasised, this is speculation; however, based on the direction humanity has taken. U wanna bet me i'm wrong?

"The good Christian should beware the mathematician and all those who make empty prophecies. The danger already exists that the mathematicians have made a covenant with the devil to darken the spirit and to confine man in the bonds of hell." - St. Augustine

This message is a reply to:
 Message 45 by Phat, posted 03-27-2006 6:42 AM Phat has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 50 by ramoss, posted 03-27-2006 1:00 PM U can call me Cookie has replied
 Message 54 by Phat, posted 03-27-2006 4:14 PM U can call me Cookie has replied

  
crashfrog
Member (Idle past 1467 days)
Posts: 19762
From: Silver Spring, MD
Joined: 03-20-2003


Message 47 of 79 (298665)
03-27-2006 12:09 PM
Reply to: Message 43 by Phat
03-27-2006 4:18 AM


Re: Speculation
Just for the sake of speculation, what do you see the human animal evolving into in...say...5000 more years?
Just like we are now, only more so.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 43 by Phat, posted 03-27-2006 4:18 AM Phat has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 48 by jar, posted 03-27-2006 12:14 PM crashfrog has not replied
 Message 49 by New Cat's Eye, posted 03-27-2006 12:19 PM crashfrog has replied

  
jar
Member (Idle past 394 days)
Posts: 34026
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004


Message 48 of 79 (298666)
03-27-2006 12:14 PM
Reply to: Message 47 by crashfrog
03-27-2006 12:09 PM


Re: Speculation
Just like we are now, only more so.
And evolved. LOL

Aslan is not a Tame Lion

This message is a reply to:
 Message 47 by crashfrog, posted 03-27-2006 12:09 PM crashfrog has not replied

  
New Cat's Eye
Inactive Member


Message 49 of 79 (298667)
03-27-2006 12:19 PM
Reply to: Message 47 by crashfrog
03-27-2006 12:09 PM


Re: Speculation
Just for the sake of speculation, what do you see the human animal evolving into in...say...5000 more years?
Just like we are now, only more so.
I think that when people talk about humans not evolving anymore, they really mean that our morphology will have no noticable changes. Its like the morphological changes are the visual clues to the occurance of evolution so when we stop 'seeing' the changes then those changes must have stopped, even thought this is not true.
Just thought I'd point that out.
And I, like you, don't think we will see any morphological change to our species, but I, unlike you, like to think of this as a result of our affect on our evolution

This message is a reply to:
 Message 47 by crashfrog, posted 03-27-2006 12:09 PM crashfrog has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 53 by crashfrog, posted 03-27-2006 3:33 PM New Cat's Eye has not replied

  
ramoss
Member (Idle past 612 days)
Posts: 3228
Joined: 08-11-2004


Message 50 of 79 (298687)
03-27-2006 1:00 PM
Reply to: Message 46 by U can call me Cookie
03-27-2006 7:26 AM


Re: Speculation
I thought that we are becoming a bit more gracile than were were 80K years ago, and the effect of agraculture is effecting us too.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 46 by U can call me Cookie, posted 03-27-2006 7:26 AM U can call me Cookie has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 52 by U can call me Cookie, posted 03-27-2006 3:26 PM ramoss has not replied

  
Heathen
Member (Idle past 1283 days)
Posts: 1067
From: Brizzle
Joined: 09-20-2005


Message 51 of 79 (298714)
03-27-2006 1:57 PM
Reply to: Message 38 by generaljoe
03-26-2006 10:55 PM


But could the ability to absorb more Glycogen be a possible next evolutionary step? or perhaps a more efficient way to store memory in our brains?
Is it not the case that we use a small percentage of our brains potential anyway?
edit... our 'brian' has no potential... changed to 'brain'
This message has been edited by Creavolution, 03-27-2006 02:01 PM

This message is a reply to:
 Message 38 by generaljoe, posted 03-26-2006 10:55 PM generaljoe has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 59 by nator, posted 03-28-2006 10:17 AM Heathen has not replied

  
U can call me Cookie
Member (Idle past 4953 days)
Posts: 228
From: jo'burg, RSA
Joined: 11-15-2005


Message 52 of 79 (298743)
03-27-2006 3:26 PM
Reply to: Message 50 by ramoss
03-27-2006 1:00 PM


Re: Speculation
I don't know about that. According to Y chromosome and mtDNA data, the extant population closest to the hypothetical ancestral human population are the San, of south west Africa. If you've seen these people, you'd see that they are quite fine-boned; possibly one of the most gracile people on the planet.
If we ignore the diversity, genetic and morphological, of Africa (since it, as yet, has not been adequately explained), a significant amount of human diversity might be due to isolation by distance. Since, nowadays, this has become less of a factor, it could be hypothesised that human populations are not going to be differentiating as fast as they have in the past.
Who knows, maybe places like SA and the US might each end up becoming one heterogeneous, admixed population, once the cultural barriers are broken down

"The good Christian should beware the mathematician and all those who make empty prophecies. The danger already exists that the mathematicians have made a covenant with the devil to darken the spirit and to confine man in the bonds of hell." - St. Augustine

This message is a reply to:
 Message 50 by ramoss, posted 03-27-2006 1:00 PM ramoss has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 57 by Mammuthus, posted 03-28-2006 6:31 AM U can call me Cookie has replied

  
crashfrog
Member (Idle past 1467 days)
Posts: 19762
From: Silver Spring, MD
Joined: 03-20-2003


Message 53 of 79 (298745)
03-27-2006 3:33 PM
Reply to: Message 49 by New Cat's Eye
03-27-2006 12:19 PM


Re: Speculation
And I, like you, don't think we will see any morphological change to our species, but I, unlike you, like to think of this as a result of our affect on our evolution
Well, we've always had an effect on our own evolution. That's part of what sexual selection is about.
Really, human "meddling" in our own genetics isn't really different than that. We've always had some degree of volition over our own gene pool, for as long as we've recognized the connection between sexual intercourse and reproduction.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 49 by New Cat's Eye, posted 03-27-2006 12:19 PM New Cat's Eye has not replied

  
Phat
Member
Posts: 18262
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.1


Message 54 of 79 (298763)
03-27-2006 4:14 PM
Reply to: Message 46 by U can call me Cookie
03-27-2006 7:26 AM


Re: Speculation
UCCMC writes:
Not really sure what you mean by this. Are you saying that it is the ego that allows us to envision a world without humanity? Could it not be said that it is the ego that causes such a humanless world to be unpalatable, if not unimaginable?
No---what I am saying is that it is the ego that allows us to collectively imagine a universe without God while at the same time using all of our human derived logic to imagine how the universe actually is.
Its one thing to say that Biological Evolution makes sense---thats common sense.
Same with Geology and other studies of our earth.
Ruling God out of Cosmological arguments, however, seems to me that our faith is more in our human wisdom. For many of us, at least.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 46 by U can call me Cookie, posted 03-27-2006 7:26 AM U can call me Cookie has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 55 by crashfrog, posted 03-27-2006 7:22 PM Phat has replied
 Message 60 by U can call me Cookie, posted 03-28-2006 10:43 AM Phat has not replied

  
crashfrog
Member (Idle past 1467 days)
Posts: 19762
From: Silver Spring, MD
Joined: 03-20-2003


Message 55 of 79 (298815)
03-27-2006 7:22 PM
Reply to: Message 54 by Phat
03-27-2006 4:14 PM


Re: Speculation
Ruling God out of Cosmological arguments, however, seems to me that our faith is more in our human wisdom. For many of us, at least.
Not our wisdom; our intelligence. Not faith; but trust. And that trust is not misplaced. The history of human development, in these past few centuries alone, is testament to that fact.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 54 by Phat, posted 03-27-2006 4:14 PM Phat has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 56 by Phat, posted 03-28-2006 5:28 AM crashfrog has replied

  
Phat
Member
Posts: 18262
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.1


Message 56 of 79 (298907)
03-28-2006 5:28 AM
Reply to: Message 55 by crashfrog
03-27-2006 7:22 PM


Re: Speculation
Crashfrog writes:
Not faith; but trust. And that trust is not misplaced. The history of human development, in these past few centuries alone, is testament to that fact.
I respect human wisdom. I have friends who have spent long and arduous hours at college gaining wisdom far removed from that of a simple praying monk.
I too have attended college and I know that broadening the mind is an evolution of thoughts, concepts, and beliefs.
I have also prayed with the "monk." Some would say that clinging to "outdated concepts and beliefs is halting the evolution of progressive thought.
I can only tell you that I have experienced both evolution of ideas and information (education) and prayer and meditation (recreation)
Recreation, to me, is impartation of a fresh spirit.
Education is an evolution of existing ideas.
The foundation of recreation is a Creator.
The foundation of evolution is a human idea that is verifiable time and time again.
Perhsaps one question is this: Will human sociological evolution view beliefs in a Deity (ities) as a mutation?
Or is the impartation from a true Deity that pre-existed human evolutionary development a continuing refreshing of our spirit?
Of course you know which side of this you believe, and I know which side I believe.
All I can say to you, Crashfrog, is that there are Lily Pads in Heaven!
What response do you have for me?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 55 by crashfrog, posted 03-27-2006 7:22 PM crashfrog has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 58 by crashfrog, posted 03-28-2006 9:12 AM Phat has not replied

  
Mammuthus
Member (Idle past 6475 days)
Posts: 3085
From: Munich, Germany
Joined: 08-09-2002


Message 57 of 79 (298915)
03-28-2006 6:31 AM
Reply to: Message 52 by U can call me Cookie
03-27-2006 3:26 PM


Re: Speculation
I actually have wondered about this myself. In terms of human evolution, we are not really under selection at all. There may be selective forces that can shift some allele frequencies one way or another locally but the sort of radical shifts in the gene pool needed for speciation are not in sight. I remember a lecture by Richard Lewontin where he said that a catastrophe killing all humans on the planet except for the Kung would still leave about 85% of all human genetic variablility represented. It is hard to imagine much evolution occurring in such an environment when most selective pressures are relatively weak. Even disease causing agents such as HIV are poor selective pressures since they allow people to breed before killing them. It does not take much migration to cause a lot of admixture. If you couple that with a big decrease in isolation by distance, the human species is becoming one gigantic admixed population. Whether this remains so is not predictable as huge shifts in the climate or some other catastrophe can change things radically..even for successful species or groups...look at what happened to the dinosaurs..or trilobites.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 52 by U can call me Cookie, posted 03-27-2006 3:26 PM U can call me Cookie has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 61 by U can call me Cookie, posted 03-28-2006 10:53 AM Mammuthus has replied

  
crashfrog
Member (Idle past 1467 days)
Posts: 19762
From: Silver Spring, MD
Joined: 03-20-2003


Message 58 of 79 (298949)
03-28-2006 9:12 AM
Reply to: Message 56 by Phat
03-28-2006 5:28 AM


Re: Speculation
What response do you have for me?
God bless, and go forward.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 56 by Phat, posted 03-28-2006 5:28 AM Phat has not replied

  
nator
Member (Idle past 2169 days)
Posts: 12961
From: Ann Arbor
Joined: 12-09-2001


Message 59 of 79 (298966)
03-28-2006 10:17 AM
Reply to: Message 51 by Heathen
03-27-2006 1:57 PM


quote:
Is it not the case that we use a small percentage of our brains potential anyway?
No, if by that you mean that we only use a small percentage of our brain.
We use all of our brain.
Just not all at once.
(Using all of the brain all at once is known as a "seizure")

This message is a reply to:
 Message 51 by Heathen, posted 03-27-2006 1:57 PM Heathen has not replied

  
U can call me Cookie
Member (Idle past 4953 days)
Posts: 228
From: jo'burg, RSA
Joined: 11-15-2005


Message 60 of 79 (298972)
03-28-2006 10:43 AM
Reply to: Message 54 by Phat
03-27-2006 4:14 PM


Re: Speculation
Ok , i think i get what you're saying.
However i don't think that the extinction of humanity presupposes the non-existence of God.
At the most it implies that God didn't make everything especially for us.

"The good Christian should beware the mathematician and all those who make empty prophecies. The danger already exists that the mathematicians have made a covenant with the devil to darken the spirit and to confine man in the bonds of hell." - St. Augustine

This message is a reply to:
 Message 54 by Phat, posted 03-27-2006 4:14 PM Phat has not replied

  
Newer Topic | Older Topic
Jump to:


Copyright 2001-2023 by EvC Forum, All Rights Reserved

™ Version 4.2
Innovative software from Qwixotic © 2024