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Author
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Topic: What we must accept if we accept evolution
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jar
Member (Idle past 416 days) Posts: 34026 From: Texas!! Joined: 04-20-2004
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Message 21 of 318 (280516)
01-21-2006 10:43 AM
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Reply to: Message 1 by robinrohan
01-21-2006 6:33 AM
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So you belive that if one excepts the TOE one must also be an atheist. Are you willing to examine the evidence that seems to indicate that your assumption is wrong?
Aslan is not a Tame Lion
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 1 by robinrohan, posted 01-21-2006 6:33 AM | | robinrohan has replied |
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jar
Member (Idle past 416 days) Posts: 34026 From: Texas!! Joined: 04-20-2004
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Message 26 of 318 (280522)
01-21-2006 10:49 AM
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Reply to: Message 23 by robinrohan
01-21-2006 10:46 AM
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Okay, then let's start with th fact that I am a Christian and yet also find the TOE to be the best explanation available for the life we see about us and that which came before. Is that sufficient eveidence to falsify your asserton?
Aslan is not a Tame Lion
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 23 by robinrohan, posted 01-21-2006 10:46 AM | | robinrohan has replied |
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jar
Member (Idle past 416 days) Posts: 34026 From: Texas!! Joined: 04-20-2004
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Message 30 of 318 (280526)
01-21-2006 10:59 AM
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Reply to: Message 29 by robinrohan
01-21-2006 10:56 AM
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Well, in that case, the fact that I can provide thousands and thousands of names of Christians who believe both Christianity and also that the TOE is a valid explanation of life as we can see it will not be accepted as evidence falsifying your assertion? Is that a reasonable summary of your position?
Aslan is not a Tame Lion
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 29 by robinrohan, posted 01-21-2006 10:56 AM | | robinrohan has replied |
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jar
Member (Idle past 416 days) Posts: 34026 From: Texas!! Joined: 04-20-2004
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Message 36 of 318 (280533)
01-21-2006 11:13 AM
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Reply to: Message 32 by robinrohan
01-21-2006 11:05 AM
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No, that is not evidence. You are all wrong. I don't think I can be wrong since all I have done so far is ask questions, I have not provided any answers which could be considered right or wrong TTBOMK. Let's examine what has happened so far in the hopes that you can point out where I might be wrong. You said in your OP that someone who agrees that the TOE is a valid explanation for the life we see must also accept atheism.
If you accept TOE, you must also accept the following: 3. atheism Is that correct? This message has been edited by jar, 01-21-2006 10:14 AM
Aslan is not a Tame Lion
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 32 by robinrohan, posted 01-21-2006 11:05 AM | | robinrohan has replied |
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jar
Member (Idle past 416 days) Posts: 34026 From: Texas!! Joined: 04-20-2004
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Correct. They must accept it logically. Well, that's pretty much just an unsupported assertion on your part it seems. So if I could show you some logical reasons that a Christian might support the TOE, would that falsify your assertion?
Aslan is not a Tame Lion
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 63 by robinrohan, posted 01-22-2006 9:46 AM | | robinrohan has replied |
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jar
Member (Idle past 416 days) Posts: 34026 From: Texas!! Joined: 04-20-2004
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Do you agree that the evidence from fossils, geology, biology, the various different species found on the earth today, genetics and experimental science show that evolution happened? This message has been edited by jar, 01-22-2006 09:05 AM
Aslan is not a Tame Lion
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 70 by robinrohan, posted 01-22-2006 9:59 AM | | robinrohan has replied |
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jar
Member (Idle past 416 days) Posts: 34026 From: Texas!! Joined: 04-20-2004
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Message 76 of 318 (280687)
01-22-2006 10:13 AM
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Reply to: Message 75 by robinrohan
01-22-2006 10:09 AM
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Fine.So do I. As a Christian, so do I. So, we now have logical reasons to believe in evolution. Do you believe that the TOE is the best logical explanation so far for the Evolution we see?
Aslan is not a Tame Lion
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 75 by robinrohan, posted 01-22-2006 10:09 AM | | robinrohan has replied |
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jar
Member (Idle past 416 days) Posts: 34026 From: Texas!! Joined: 04-20-2004
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Message 81 of 318 (280695)
01-22-2006 10:28 AM
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Reply to: Message 79 by robinrohan
01-22-2006 10:20 AM
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Okay, so now we have logical reasons to believe that Evolution happened and that the TOE is the best explanation to date of the process. Many, if not most Christians would agree with you, certainly many if not most Christian clergy agree with you.
We believe that the theory of evolution is a foundational scientific truth, one that has stood up to rigorous scrutiny and upon which much of human knowledge and achievement rests. To reject this truth or to treat it as “one theory among others” is to deliberately embrace scientific ignorance and transmit such ignorance to our children. from An Open Letter Concerning Religion and Science So a large body of Christians find that there is logical support for both the fact of Evolution and the Theory of Evolution as an explanation. Does that falsify your assertion?
Aslan is not a Tame Lion
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 79 by robinrohan, posted 01-22-2006 10:20 AM | | robinrohan has replied |
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jar
Member (Idle past 416 days) Posts: 34026 From: Texas!! Joined: 04-20-2004
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Message 84 of 318 (280702)
01-22-2006 10:54 AM
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Reply to: Message 82 by robinrohan
01-22-2006 10:36 AM
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No, it does not. Just because a lot of people believe something doesn't make it true. Their view is sentimental, not logical. They are trying to have it both ways, and you can't have it both ways. I'm sorry but that seems to be simply another unsupported assertion on your part. I have supplied
- logical reasons to think Evolution hapened.
- logical reasons to think that the Theory of Evolution is the best explanation for the life we see around us.
- personal testimony that as a Christian I support both the fact of Evolution and the TOE.
- a statement of other Christians that also hold that position.
- a list of over 10,000 names of Christian Clergy that hold that position.
yet all you have supplied to counter that weight of evidence is your argument from incredulity. Where in what I presented was sentiment expressed? If you cannot point out what I presented from "sentiment" as opposed to logic, how can you stand by your assertion? If you wish to continue to assert that
robinrohan writes: The idea here is to study what evolution necessarily includes. I've identified several corollary concepts. If you accept TOE, you must also accept the following: 3. atheism
that is fine, but it appears you are doing so out of sentiment, and in opposition to the weight of evidence that has been presented. Would it not be better if you reworded your assertion to say that you believe that if someone supports the fact of evolution or the TOE one must accept atheism? It would still be an incorrect belief but then everyone, even YECs are entitled to hold their incorrect beliefs.
Aslan is not a Tame Lion
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 82 by robinrohan, posted 01-22-2006 10:36 AM | | robinrohan has replied |
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jar
Member (Idle past 416 days) Posts: 34026 From: Texas!! Joined: 04-20-2004
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Message 91 of 318 (280711)
01-22-2006 11:17 AM
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Reply to: Message 90 by robinrohan
01-22-2006 11:14 AM
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Still need some questions answered?
Where in what I presented was sentiment expressed? If you cannot point out what I presented from "sentiment" as opposed to logic, how can you stand by your assertion?
Aslan is not a Tame Lion
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 90 by robinrohan, posted 01-22-2006 11:14 AM | | robinrohan has replied |
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jar
Member (Idle past 416 days) Posts: 34026 From: Texas!! Joined: 04-20-2004
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Message 95 of 318 (280716)
01-22-2006 11:36 AM
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Reply to: Message 94 by robinrohan
01-22-2006 11:33 AM
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On to the next step.
Okay, on to next step then. Did I present logical reasons to believe Evolution happened as a fact and that the TOE was the best explanation available so far? Did you agree with those reasons?
Aslan is not a Tame Lion
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 94 by robinrohan, posted 01-22-2006 11:33 AM | | robinrohan has replied |
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jar
Member (Idle past 416 days) Posts: 34026 From: Texas!! Joined: 04-20-2004
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Message 98 of 318 (280720)
01-22-2006 11:58 AM
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Reply to: Message 97 by robinrohan
01-22-2006 11:51 AM
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one more baby step.
We believe that among God’s good gifts are human minds capable of critical thought and that the failure to fully employ this gift is a rejection of the will of our Creator. The above quote is from An Open Letter Concerning Religion and Science which was referenced earlier. Do you think that it is something which could be supported logically? If man does have a mind that is capable of critical thought, should it be employed?
Aslan is not a Tame Lion
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 97 by robinrohan, posted 01-22-2006 11:51 AM | | robinrohan has replied |
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jar
Member (Idle past 416 days) Posts: 34026 From: Texas!! Joined: 04-20-2004
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Re: one more baby step.
Do you agree that man is capable of thought?
Aslan is not a Tame Lion
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 102 by robinrohan, posted 01-22-2006 1:22 PM | | robinrohan has not replied |
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