Ignorant Creationists vs. Knowledgeable Evolutionists

There machines are designed to be complex from the get go, so they don't "become" complex at all.

Each human brain originates from a single egg and a single sperm.[

But Buz, people have used the principles of Natural Selection to solve engineering problems that human engineers could not figure out.They use genetic algorhithms.Nature, as in Natural Selection, is smarter than people.

I do get cranky now and then.

Please answer this very simple question... if complexity requires design, who or what designed god? Infantile, I know, but to the point.Conversely, if god does not require a creator, why does anything else?

Wouldn't it be funny if buz is made into an admin? It will be war of the admins

Buz, you remind me of a uneducated parent who makes up answers to questions they have no intention of thinking about or accurately answering for the purpose of shutting up their curious kid.

But when you say the brain is too complex, you've moved into an area of judgement........

Then it is valid to ask you to support your opinion.

could a simple brain such as an earthworm be the result of natural selection?
could a slightly more complex brain like a crab or crayfish be the result of natural selection?
then move along the chain until you reach a critter that you believe is too complex to be the result of natural selection.
Once you define the break point, you WILL be expected to show why it exists.

Something had to be forever existing in order to produce anything. I say it was God. You might say it was a particle of space as Rich Gore of National Geographic put it, or whatever you think it began from.

Buz, your problem is you don't even understand that you haven't answered the questions.

You have your own intuitive picture of what complexity is.

That intuition is approximately what most of us would agree is complexity. However, to use this concept in a real discussion of the issues around the evolutionary process you have to have a much more precise idea than just a rough intuition.

Asking you the questions is one way to show you that you don't really have the kind of grasp of this concept that you need.

You seem to think that the human brain is somehow so marvelous that it is separated from all of nature around it. However, it isn't. Our brains are a continuation of the brains of our relatives and ancestors. We are, in fact, beginnig to uncover the specific genetic differences that have formed our brains. So far, it looks like the steps are achievable through the understood evolutionary processes.

You may think you are being discriminated against Buz. What is being discriminated against is the kind of fuzzy thinking that you believe proves something. It turns out that some of this stuff is difficult. If you don't like that then stay off the topics that are hard.

Let me see if I understand what you are saying.
You believe as a matter of faith that the human brain is too complex to have come about through Evolution and Natural Selection.

You have no support for that belief, do not plan on supporting that belief and it is simply a personal opinion based on your religious interpretations.

1. What we observe in our daily lives is that complex things like computers, televisions, airplanes, etc is that in order to become complex to do what we want them to do, masterfully precisioned and designed by thousands of INTELLIGENTindividuals go into making them the complex machines which function to serve us as they do.2. By the same token, scientists observe the brain, it is discovered that some 100 billion neurons, served by around a trillion service agents function with great precision to operate the nervous systems of each of billions of people. Each neuron interacts with at least 10 other neurons in the process. I believe the human mind is far more complex than anything man-made. No amount of co-operative human intelligence can make one from scratch.3. The thread title is "Ignorant Creationists vs. Knowledgeable Evolutionists. It is the notion of some of us more ignorant Biblical fundamental creationists that no amount of time nor natural selection nor random mutation with out a smidget of intelligence would be able to produce such a precisely designed and super-highly complex wonder as the human brain, no matter how you cook up your math and rig up your theories.Do you mean to say that complexity can only come about with God's intervention?PRECISELY! If all the kings wise men, with all their combined trillions of neuronic brains working together can't make a brain, imo, mindless Mr. Natual Selection and his cohort, dead headed Ms Radom Mutation never did it. And don't forget also that the kings wise men have models to observe and work from/copy, where NS and RM, had nothing atol to begin to put it all together, not even anything whatsoever to motivate them to do it.