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Author Topic:   Super Evolution and the Flood
Blue Jay
Member (Idle past 860 days)
Posts: 2843
From: You couldn't pronounce it with your mouthparts
Joined: 02-04-2008


Message 151 of 173 (460395)
03-14-2008 5:33 PM
Reply to: Message 138 by ICANT
03-14-2008 1:43 AM


Re: Creeping Things
ICANT writes:

They are different words

Thank you, ICANT: that answers that question. Can you also confirm this for Genesis 7:14, 21 and 23? And for Leviticus 11:23? Are these words ("remes" and "sheket") used interchangeably, or are they distinctly-defined?


There was a point to this [post], but it has temporarily escaped the chronicler's mind. -modified from Life, the Universe and Everything, Douglas Adams
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SAMBEE
Junior Member (Idle past 4020 days)
Posts: 18
From: Alabama
Joined: 11-19-2007


Message 152 of 173 (460399)
03-14-2008 5:46 PM
Reply to: Message 127 by Phalanx
03-13-2008 8:39 PM


Re: SUPER EVOLUTION AND THE FLOOD
Shalom,Phalanx what Iam speaking of is the three fold pattern of the universe,if you can not understand the pattern of the tabernacle which consist of three parts just as your human body does thats on you.Mankind is created in the image of Yahweh our heavenly father our bodies are temples or more correctly tabernacles of the most high.Do you agree? how they relate, the tabernacle is composed of three parts 1.most holy place 2.holy place 3.court round about now the human body 1.head{most holy place}2.chest cavity{holy place} 3.court round about{abdomen}.This has everything to do with this topic Iam just showing that the ark which is constructed to the three fold pattern 1.{lower deck}2.{middle deck}3.{upper deck}that Yahweh contained his creation within his pattern.Plants need earth,water,sunlight three fold pattern animal conform to the pattern as humans do.

Atoms are made up of protons{+} electrons{-} and neutrons{0}this is the three fold pattern of the universe.
Sambee...

Edited by SAMBEE, : added to post.


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ICANT
Member
Posts: 6187
From: SSC
Joined: 03-12-2007


Message 153 of 173 (460400)
03-14-2008 5:51 PM
Reply to: Message 149 by graft2vine
03-14-2008 4:43 PM


Re: SUPER EVOLUTION AND THE FLOOD
Hi graft2vine,

graft2vine writes:

So, if we are to look at superevolution after the flood

I don't see any need for super evolution after the flood. Five acres of floor space would equal a train with 51' x 8' x 10' cars 5.6 miles long. With the modifications of putting in the rooms mentioned that could be increased to 14 or 15 miles. I think that would be sufficient to hold all animals necessary.

Since Noah was to supply the ark. He did his job. God was to supply the animals. Noah was not told to supply anything else so that would be God's job also. If the animals needed to be fed, watered, cleaned up behind and cared for physically I am sure God could spare an angels to take of those tasks.

God Bless,


"John 5:39 (KJS) Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me."
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SAMBEE
Junior Member (Idle past 4020 days)
Posts: 18
From: Alabama
Joined: 11-19-2007


Message 154 of 173 (460402)
03-14-2008 6:06 PM
Reply to: Message 153 by ICANT
03-14-2008 5:51 PM


Re: SUPER EVOLUTION AND THE FLOOD
Shalom,ICANT I can agree with that.
Sambee...
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ICANT
Member
Posts: 6187
From: SSC
Joined: 03-12-2007


Message 155 of 173 (460403)
03-14-2008 6:09 PM
Reply to: Message 151 by Blue Jay
03-14-2008 5:33 PM


Re: Creeping Things
Hi Bluejay,

Genesis 7:14, 21 and 23?

All these are the same word remes.

Leviticus 11:23?
sherets

The full definition for each word is in:Message 138

They are never used interchangeably.

God Bless,


"John 5:39 (KJS) Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me."
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Percy
Member
Posts: 18470
From: New Hampshire
Joined: 12-23-2000
Member Rating: 2.8


Message 156 of 173 (460406)
03-14-2008 7:50 PM
Reply to: Message 150 by ICANT
03-14-2008 4:48 PM


Re: SUPER EVOLUTION AND THE FLOOD
Hi ICANT and Graft2vine,

You both argue that the tales of Genesis couldn't have taken place without miracles, but that's the claim of creationism, more specifically, creation science, that a young earth and a global flood responsible for world geology have scientific legitimacy. Claims that this is science were what the trials in Dayton, Little Rock and Louisiana and at the Supreme Court in Washington D.C. were all about.

This thread is a response to just one of the specific claims, that it is scientifically possible for the animals to be saved on Noah's ark during the flood and to repopulate the world afterward. If you believe that this couldn't possibly be science and would require miracles I can only agree with you, and in their hearts I'm sure the creationists understand this also, but it isn't claims of religion but of science that they bring to school boards and state legislatures.

--Percy


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ICANT
Member
Posts: 6187
From: SSC
Joined: 03-12-2007


Message 157 of 173 (460412)
03-14-2008 9:14 PM
Reply to: Message 156 by Percy
03-14-2008 7:50 PM


Re: SUPER EVOLUTION AND THE FLOOD
Thanks Percy,

Percy writes:

I'm sure the creationists understand this also, but it isn't claims of religion but of science that they bring to school boards and state legislatures.

Percy I have to disagree with you. Those people actually believe they are doing science. Many of them I know personally and they have been brainwashed into believing a lie.

Percy there is no problem as I see it for enough animals to be on the ark to repopulate the earth. I am old earth so I would not have to have a lot of animals YEC's would need. But when it comes to dealing with the food, water and waste there is no humanly way that it could be possible.

Those guys need to preach the gospel and quit trying to sell their beliefs as science. If they want to waste their time preaching it from the pulpits they can. Most of them have private church schools teach it there. But when it comes to the public school system no. Then I think some of them just use it as a money making machine selling books.

Percy in 46 years of preaching I have never preached a sermon on the flood. There are more important things.

God Bless,


"John 5:39 (KJS) Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me."
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Percy
Member
Posts: 18470
From: New Hampshire
Joined: 12-23-2000
Member Rating: 2.8


Message 158 of 173 (460421)
03-14-2008 10:23 PM
Reply to: Message 157 by ICANT
03-14-2008 9:14 PM


Re: SUPER EVOLUTION AND THE FLOOD
I can only agree with what you say, but my original point was that I understand this thread, in its second breath as revitalized by Taz, to be considering non-miraculous ways for the proper selection of animals to fit on the ark along with enough food and water and manpower to survive through the flood for purposes of repopulation through super-evolution. If you allow acts of God then there's no problem since God can do anything.

--Percy


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obvious Child
Member (Idle past 2278 days)
Posts: 661
Joined: 08-17-2006


Message 159 of 173 (460422)
03-14-2008 10:29 PM
Reply to: Message 132 by ICANT
03-13-2008 9:24 PM


can you show me more magic tricks?
Got it. Magic. Goddidit. Hocus Pocus.

quote:
The same thing is true with, "In the beginning a hot little something that no one knows anything about expanded into the universe we see today." If you can believe that you have no problem swallowing the rest of the story.

Except that there is actual evidence for that rather then your fairy tale. I'd go into that, but you'd go into your PRATTs.


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willietdog
Inactive Member


Message 160 of 173 (460430)
03-15-2008 12:12 AM


Sry, I kind of forgot about EVC since I posted this. I am very supprised as to how popular this thread has become. I do want to clarify however that I mispoke when I used the word species, but I think you caught on to that pretty well. I beleive the bible says 2 of each kind. I'm still rather new to the forum and its hard sometimes to remember how litteral you have to be around this group of people.
  
willietdog
Inactive Member


Message 161 of 173 (460431)
03-15-2008 12:17 AM
Reply to: Message 158 by Percy
03-14-2008 10:23 PM


Re: SUPER EVOLUTION AND THE FLOOD
If you allow acts of God then there's no problem since God can do anything.

I gennerally beleive this too, but even God cannot cause a species to evolve faster than it can reproduce. Its a logical impossibility. And I highly doubt that God would cause an animal to have offspring every few minuites for a few thousand years.

Edited by willietdog, : No reason given.


I Am A: "Christian Evolutionist"
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Kapyong
Member (Idle past 1604 days)
Posts: 344
Joined: 05-22-2003


Message 162 of 173 (460443)
03-15-2008 4:09 AM
Reply to: Message 85 by graft2vine
03-08-2008 11:47 PM


Hiya,

graft2vine writes:

A "kind" today would be classified by scientists in most cases at the genus level and could be as high as family.

Well, if it's family, then that means that chimpanzees, gorillas, and orangutans all descended from Noah and/or his children, because humans, chimpanzees, gorillas, and orangutans are all in the same biological family.

Do you really think chimpanzees, gorillas, and orangutans all evolved from Noah and/or his children?

Iasion


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willietdog
Inactive Member


Message 163 of 173 (460500)
03-15-2008 6:23 PM
Reply to: Message 162 by Kapyong
03-15-2008 4:09 AM


I think thats allitle harsh don't you?
This message is a reply to:
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Kapyong
Member (Idle past 1604 days)
Posts: 344
Joined: 05-22-2003


Message 164 of 173 (460505)
03-15-2008 7:15 PM
Reply to: Message 163 by willietdog
03-15-2008 6:23 PM


Harsh?

No,
it simply follows directly from graft2vine's statement.

IF "kind" means biological family,
AND Noah only took one set of each kind,
AND all species in that biological family evolved from that set of kind after the flood -

THEN chimpanzees, gorillas, and orangutans all evolved from Noah's family.

That is - unless Noah took a pair of hominidae "kind" which then evolved into humans, chimpanzees, gorillas, and orangutans.
If that is the case -
what exactly WAS that pair of hominidae kind?

Iasion


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camanintx
Junior Member (Idle past 3374 days)
Posts: 4
From: 3rd rock from the Sun
Joined: 09-11-2007


Message 165 of 173 (460572)
03-16-2008 5:23 PM
Reply to: Message 3 by randman
02-26-2008 12:21 AM


Take canines. All canines can interbreed, right? So from a YEC perspective, though they may all be called species by modern man, they would all be the same kind and are the same kind from a creationist perspective.

If all dogs descended from the two dogs on Noah's Ark, then how can there be so many breeds? Even if the two dogs were from different breeds, all of their offspring would share the same genetic traits. Without "super evolution" we would have the variety we see today.


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