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Member (Idle past 2952 days) Posts: 504 From: Juneau, Alaska, USA Joined: |
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Author | Topic: Hovind: Lies in the Textbook | |||||||||||||||||||||||
The Dread Dormammu Inactive Member |
Seemed funny at the time. I think it's hilarious! I think there is a whole site devoted to exposing kent hovinds lies. Lets see... ah here it is: Account Suspended I'm sure there are others though. In praticular check out the 300 lies index. This message has been edited by The Dread Dormammu, 12-03-2004 05:21 AM
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The Dread Dormammu Inactive Member |
I still don't understand how, even IF trilobites still exsisted it would damage the theory of evolution.
What is his point? If we discovered trilobites living today in some ultra remote trench it wouldn't be evedence that we have misdated everything would it? This message has been edited by The Dread Dormammu, 12-04-2004 08:11 AM
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The Dread Dormammu Inactive Member |
Buzzsaw says:
I think it is disingenuous, meanspirited and unfair for posters to malign him as a liar for what he believes. Being a god fearing person, I doubt that he would blatantly and purposfully lie. Sorry for the huge cut and paste but I was so disgusted when I read this and I think you should see it buzz. I took it from the "300 lies page." Kent Hovind says:
"I took one of my kids to the dentist one time when he was about six or seven years old...He tried to sit still, but when the doctor pulled out that giant needle about twelve feet long, and poured in about eighteen gallons of Novocain, and said, Okay kid, open up, he freaked...He lost it. He was screaming and hollering and yelling...Finally, after a few minutes the doctor gave up and said, I cant work on this kid...I said, Doc, let me take him outside and talk to him for a few minutes." "We went out to the parking lot, got in the old Chevy van and sat in the back seat. I said, Son, listen carefully. You know that I love you." "He said, I know daddy. I said, Now son, I told you to sit still. You did not sit still. What happens when you disobey daddy? He said, Sniff, sniff... I get a spanking? I said, Correct, bend over. Boy, did I give him a spanking, and it was a doozy. A few minutes later, smoke was rising off his hind end, tears were coming out of his eyes, and pearls were coming out of his nostrils" "We are going to go back into the dentist office, and you are going to sit in that chair. If you wiggle one time, Im not going to yell at you and Im not going to scream at you. Im going to calmly take you back out here to the van, and Im going to give you two spankings just like the one you just received. Then, we are going to go back into the dentist office, and you are going to sit in the chair. If you wiggle, we are going to come back out to the van, and you are going to get three spankings just like the one you just got. Son, we are going to go back and forth all day long until I get tired, and I have played tennis for years. I have a wonderful forehand smash. I dont believe Ill get tired for a long time, son." "The doctor then said,...I dont know what you said to that kid while you were outside, but I would like for you to work for me. I said, No sir, you dont want me to work for you, the Child Welfare would have me in jail in a flash...The second time that we were in the dentists office, the kid was still scared of the dentist; no question about it. He was scared, but he was more scared of me than anything else in the world at that time." I don't know if this disturbs you as much as it disturbs me buzz. I think that he is a wolf in sheeps clothing buzz. He is masquerading as a "God fearing person". But all he is doing is hurting the church. He is leading his "fellow" christians astray by turning them against rationality. He is hurting evangalisum becasue nobody wants to join a religion that is adamantly opposed to ratioanl thought and the sceintific method. Now I don't want to pull this thread way of topic here so let's not discuss child abuse or spanking. But I do think modreate rational creationists and christians would do themselves a great servace if they didn't try to defend this guy.
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The Dread Dormammu Inactive Member |
Buzzsaw has deleted the quote at the top of my post.
The quote seemed to imply that even if Hovind says things that aren't true it's ok becase he is a decent God fearing fellow and that they therefore must be honest mistakes. Buzzsaw seemed to be saying that, if you are a decent fellow then you aren't a liar. Well Hovind is not a decent fellow so perhaps he is a liar. You are right though, it is off topic. Horrible people can tell the truth, and decent folks can lie. We should judge Hovinds claims based on their own merit.
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The Dread Dormammu Inactive Member |
Sorry my mistake. It's a quote from another post with the same title.
Sorry that was realy sloppy of me. I saw that he had edited a similar post today, after I posted my reply, and it had the same title but the quote is still there. Really sorry to accuse you of that Buzz. It was a stupid mistake for me to not check the messege number.
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The Dread Dormammu Inactive Member |
Does it even matter if he is delebrately deceving people or not?
He makes outrageous claims that he doesn't back up. When he does refer to scientific literature it's hoplessly out of date or misrepresented. And, intentionaly or not, he says things that simply aren't true. Even if he never intentionaly lies, that wouldn't change the fact that the says things that simply aren't true. So why do people listen to him?
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The Dread Dormammu Inactive Member |
Brad McFall says:
get it? No sorry I don't. I couldn't reach the first link and the second one seemed to be about homosexuality. I don't see what this has to do with speciation. I was generaly confused when I tried to read your post (now rereading it a third time). Perhaps you could point me to a link where you define some of the terms you use.
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The Dread Dormammu Inactive Member |
Sorry to jump on the bandwagon of dissagreeing wih your post but I have a number of complaints.
I try to stick to the fundamentals about a person's message and teaching. Good, we should all try to do that. But then you shouldn't defend him by saying that he is a "God fearing man" because wheather he is God fearing or not is irrelevant. He is either right or wrong about evoultuition. If he is wrong he is either mistaken or deceptive. In order to prove he is deceptive opponents of Hovind have to prove that he knows something to be true when he says it is false. For example when he is expounding on the number three, he talks about how there are 3 dimentions (I guess he rejects string theory(whitch is Ok)), and 3 states of matter, solids, liquids and gases. This is NOT ok becase it not true! There are, in fact, at least 7 states of matter. Solids, liquids, Gasses, Plasmas, Bose enstien Condensates, Fermionic condensates, and Quark-gluonic plasma. We have produced all of these states of matter in laboratories so we know they exsist. So is Hovind lying, or is he merely mistaken? Well we know he knows about plasma becase he talks about it in an earlyer paragraph. see: http://www.geocities.com/.../Pier/1766/hovindlies/index.html Now, Hovind still has an out. He might know about plasma, but not know that it is a seperate state of matter. If this is the case he is uniformed. You said:
Whether or not you agree with the man on this or that, by listening to him you'll likely gain a measure of knowledge in one field or another. HOW! If I listend to him about this I would NOT gain a measure of knowlwdge! I would think there were 3 states of matter, That would be wrong! I would think that plasma was not a seprate state of matter, THAT would be wrong. If I listend to him about vetigial organs I would again get a WRONG impression about what scientests mean when they use the word vestigial. How can I gain knowledge from someone who has wrong information? All you can get from listining to him is confuesed.
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The Dread Dormammu Inactive Member |
You said:
To label Hovind a liar for using what many secular teachers teach is biased meanspiritedness on your part, imo. Look, Maybe they talk about there being only 3 states of matter in elemetary school, or in Jr. High. But I challenge you to find a physisist who claims that there are only 3 states of matter. Here is a website devoted to KIDS where they talk about plasma as a forth state of matter: Chem4Kids.com: Matter: States of Matter How about this from Wikepedia State of matter - Wikipedia Notice they talk about even more states of matter than I listed. Why don't you find some bold claims Hovind makes that you actualy want to defend and we will see if they are true or not. Otherwise we are just waisting time, becase any claim we refute you can say you don't agree with. What DO you agree with?
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The Dread Dormammu Inactive Member |
Buzzsaw says:
The fair thing to do is to critique what you don't agree with and allow due credit for the rest. Why don't you tell us what we should give due credit for?
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The Dread Dormammu Inactive Member |
Ok here is the quote I found where hovind talks about 3 states of matter.
Matter has three dimensions, solid, liquid, and gas It seems to be in a paragraph where he is talking about the mysticalness of the number 3 and it's relation to the trinity. http://www.geocities.com/...each/Pier/1766/hovindlies/M.html Most of my quotes are taken from this site: http://www.geocities.com/.../Pier/1766/hovindlies/index.html I can't seem to find the original text on hovinds site. Can anyone find a link to what Buddaka is quoting? I have found may crituques and quotes from various sources but I can't seem to find the original text. In regards to Buzzsaws comment:
I think he tries to keep it simple and relative to things commonly observed on earth for his audiences, much like many school teachers do. I don't blame him for that. Look, it is perhaps excuseable to dumb things down for your audenace to get to a central issue. But if his point is that the number 3 is somehow mysitcal and special, and that we can see how things in nature come in distinct sets of 3's its disingenuous to say there are 3 states of matter. Plasma is NOT GAS it is a completly different state of matter. Plasma - Wikipedia If he knows the truth then he is being diengenous to call atention to the mysticalness of the number 3 in realtion to the number of states of matter. If he doesn't know the truth then he is stupid or ill informed. In either case he isn't someone worth paying attention to.
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The Dread Dormammu Inactive Member |
Speaking of the mystical nature of the number 3 check out this thread.
http://EvC Forum: The Numerical Signature of God (Updated) -->EvC Forum: The Numerical Signature of God (Updated)
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