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Author Topic:   Discussing the evidence that support creationism
Aquilegia753
Member (Idle past 4064 days)
Posts: 113
Joined: 11-08-2007


Message 76 of 301 (433763)
11-12-2007 9:10 PM
Reply to: Message 73 by dwise1
11-12-2007 9:04 PM


Re: why this still isn't evidence for young creation
"which Christian deity is it who is to be served by lies and deception?"

None. My God cannot be served by lies. God (and please, when you're talking about Him, capitolize His name. He's not some polytheistic god who's effectiveness is smaller than a blade of grass) is awesome and powerful. He deserves the truth (He knows it all already, there's no point in trying to lie) and all glory.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 73 by dwise1, posted 11-12-2007 9:04 PM dwise1 has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 81 by dwise1, posted 11-12-2007 9:21 PM Aquilegia753 has responded

Taz
Member (Idle past 1455 days)
Posts: 5069
From: Zerus
Joined: 07-18-2006


Message 77 of 301 (433765)
11-12-2007 9:11 PM
Reply to: Message 75 by dwise1
11-12-2007 9:07 PM


Re: why this still isn't evidence for young creation
Just use html.


Owing to the deficiency of the English language, I have occasionally used the academic jargon generator to produce phrases that even I don't fully understand. The jargons are not meant to offend anyone or to insult anyone's intelligence!
This message is a reply to:
 Message 75 by dwise1, posted 11-12-2007 9:07 PM dwise1 has not yet responded

Aquilegia753
Member (Idle past 4064 days)
Posts: 113
Joined: 11-08-2007


Message 78 of 301 (433766)
11-12-2007 9:12 PM
Reply to: Message 75 by dwise1
11-12-2007 9:07 PM


Re: why this still isn't evidence for young creation
I like studying the Bible for myself.

In HTML, it's the 'greater-than' and 'lesser-than' symbols.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 75 by dwise1, posted 11-12-2007 9:07 PM dwise1 has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 80 by dwise1, posted 11-12-2007 9:18 PM Aquilegia753 has not yet responded

jar
Member
Posts: 30980
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004
Member Rating: 4.8


Message 79 of 301 (433770)
11-12-2007 9:17 PM
Reply to: Message 74 by Aquilegia753
11-12-2007 9:04 PM


Re: why this still isn't evidence for young creation
No human could ever invent the idea of my God.

But you have presented the little god you created, one that lies and falsifies data. Frankly, the god you describe would get fired in any lab in the world; could not live under the ethics required of any scientist.

The topic though is "Discussing the evidence that support creationism", yet you have presented nothing in the form of evidence that supports creationism.

Slow down.

If you believe that Creationism can be supported, then you need to present the best case you can muster in support of that position.

Proving the conventional model wrong will not help you; that does not provide support for creationism.

There is one serious problem you will face. If you wish to introduce God as a factor, then you need to place God on exhibit so that God can be tested just as any other piece of evidence. If you do not place God on the table, then you are left with the same tools folk have been using.

In either case, what you need is a model that explains what is seen even better than the conventional model.


Aslan is not a Tame Lion
This message is a reply to:
 Message 74 by Aquilegia753, posted 11-12-2007 9:04 PM Aquilegia753 has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 82 by Aquilegia753, posted 11-12-2007 9:41 PM jar has responded

dwise1
Member
Posts: 3490
Joined: 05-02-2006
Member Rating: 5.1


Message 80 of 301 (433771)
11-12-2007 9:18 PM
Reply to: Message 78 by Aquilegia753
11-12-2007 9:12 PM


Re: why this still isn't evidence for young creation
Non sequitur.

I've added a short story from my experience, so you may want to check it again.

And, yes, I do indeed know HTML. I have written several web pages, all of them with a text editor, not no stinkin' HTML editor.

I also know a lot of bulletin board codes and have been active on a number of forums. BBCodes use square brackets; eg url, qs, quote, i, b. I've had trouble with other forum software not accepting HTML; this is the first forum where I've been able to use any HTML.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 78 by Aquilegia753, posted 11-12-2007 9:12 PM Aquilegia753 has not yet responded

  
dwise1
Member
Posts: 3490
Joined: 05-02-2006
Member Rating: 5.1


Message 81 of 301 (433773)
11-12-2007 9:21 PM
Reply to: Message 76 by Aquilegia753
11-12-2007 9:10 PM


Re: why this still isn't evidence for young creation
I do agree that YHWH, AKA "The God of Truth", should not served through lies and deception.

T'is another deity to whom I refer. The Prince of Darkness who, I had been taught, is the one to be served through lies and deception. So when creationists employ their lies and deception, whom are they serving?

Edited by dwise1, : spelling


This message is a reply to:
 Message 76 by Aquilegia753, posted 11-12-2007 9:10 PM Aquilegia753 has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 83 by Aquilegia753, posted 11-12-2007 9:45 PM dwise1 has responded

  
Aquilegia753
Member (Idle past 4064 days)
Posts: 113
Joined: 11-08-2007


Message 82 of 301 (433779)
11-12-2007 9:41 PM
Reply to: Message 79 by jar
11-12-2007 9:17 PM


Re: why this still isn't evidence for young creation

"what you need is a model that explains what is seen even better than the conventional model.

"Do not test the Lord your God..." Deut. 6:16.

The truth is, I can't prove that Creation happened. I can't prove anything in the Bible is true. I can't do this any more than you can prove that evolution is true. Nobody can prove anything happened billions, millions, or even tens of thousands of years ago. We can't because we weren't there. We haven't experianced anything. Although evolution isn't considered a religion, I feel it is. Religion is defined as 'a specific fundamental set of beliefs and practices generally agreed upon by a number of persons or sects' (http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/Religion). Evolutionists believe that we evolved from a differant species just as much as creationists believe we were created.

To put it truthfully, I had made this topic to 'Dicuss' the evidence that 'supports' creationism, not proves it. You can't prove evolution, and I can't prove creation. We're stuck with two unprovable topics, and we're fighting over them! What's the point? You say 'a, b, c, d, e, f, g, h, i, j, and k are true, giving lots of evidence to my cause, now prove yours.' I say, 'I can say that q, r, and s might be true, but I still believe that my cause is right.' You say, 'you didn't prove yours.' But, you never proved yours either. Neither of us can prove our cause because they are unprovable.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 79 by jar, posted 11-12-2007 9:17 PM jar has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 84 by Taz, posted 11-12-2007 9:45 PM Aquilegia753 has responded
 Message 85 by jar, posted 11-12-2007 9:50 PM Aquilegia753 has responded
 Message 99 by Doddy, posted 11-13-2007 7:29 AM Aquilegia753 has not yet responded

Aquilegia753
Member (Idle past 4064 days)
Posts: 113
Joined: 11-08-2007


Message 83 of 301 (433781)
11-12-2007 9:45 PM
Reply to: Message 81 by dwise1
11-12-2007 9:21 PM


Re: why this still isn't evidence for young creation

"I do agree that YHWH, AKA "The God of Truth", should not served through lies and deception.
T'is another deity to whom I refer. The Prince of Darkness who, I had been taught, is the one to be served through lies and deception. So when creationists employ their lies and deception, whom are they serving?

"

I agree with ever aspect of that, except for your stating satan as a prince and capitolizing his name. Capitolizing names is a way to show respect. I feel the need to show utter respect toward God, but none to satan, so I never capitolize satan.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 81 by dwise1, posted 11-12-2007 9:21 PM dwise1 has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 92 by dwise1, posted 11-12-2007 10:16 PM Aquilegia753 has responded

Taz
Member (Idle past 1455 days)
Posts: 5069
From: Zerus
Joined: 07-18-2006


Message 84 of 301 (433782)
11-12-2007 9:45 PM
Reply to: Message 82 by Aquilegia753
11-12-2007 9:41 PM


Re: why this still isn't evidence for young creation
I'd like to remind you that this is a science forum. Your liberal use of biblical passages to prove a point is getting tiring.


Owing to the deficiency of the English language, I have occasionally used the academic jargon generator to produce phrases that even I don't fully understand. The jargons are not meant to offend anyone or to insult anyone's intelligence!
This message is a reply to:
 Message 82 by Aquilegia753, posted 11-12-2007 9:41 PM Aquilegia753 has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 86 by Aquilegia753, posted 11-12-2007 9:53 PM Taz has responded

jar
Member
Posts: 30980
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004
Member Rating: 4.8


Message 85 of 301 (433784)
11-12-2007 9:50 PM
Reply to: Message 82 by Aquilegia753
11-12-2007 9:41 PM


Re: why this still isn't evidence for young creation
"Do not test the Lord your God..." Deut. 6:16.

That is called a Special Pleading.

The truth is, I can't prove that Creation happened. I can't prove anything in the Bible is true.

However we can show with a very high degree of confidence that many things in the Bible, the Flood, the Exodus, the Conquest of Cannan did not happen.

Nobody can prove anything happened billions, millions, or even tens of thousands of years ago.

Nonsense.

We can't because we weren't there.

Irrelevant. We do not need to have been there, just as I do not need to have been there to know that you actually had a Great-great-great-great-grandfather.

Evolutionists believe that we evolved from a differant species just as much as creationists believe we were created.

Sorry but that is just another of the lies you have been taught. People accept evolution because that is what the evidence shows. It is NOT a matter of belief.

To put it truthfully, I had made this topic to 'Dicuss' the evidence that 'supports' creationism, not proves it.

Fine, present the evidence. Just remember if you wish to insert god, be prepared to place god on the table to be examined.

If you can support Creationism, then please present the model that explains what is seen.


Aslan is not a Tame Lion
This message is a reply to:
 Message 82 by Aquilegia753, posted 11-12-2007 9:41 PM Aquilegia753 has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 88 by Aquilegia753, posted 11-12-2007 10:06 PM jar has responded

Aquilegia753
Member (Idle past 4064 days)
Posts: 113
Joined: 11-08-2007


Message 86 of 301 (433786)
11-12-2007 9:53 PM
Reply to: Message 84 by Taz
11-12-2007 9:45 PM


Re: why this still isn't evidence for young creation
I know this is a science forum, but I happen to believe that the Bible is historical. That if you dug deep enough around the Sinai Peninsula, you'd find Egyptian war equipment. That you will never find the body of Jesus, because there is no body to be found. I believe that a huge flood did cover the earth and alter its formations. Because I believe this, I will use the Bible in my evidence whenever I feel like.
This message is a reply to:
 Message 84 by Taz, posted 11-12-2007 9:45 PM Taz has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 87 by Taz, posted 11-12-2007 10:04 PM Aquilegia753 has responded
 Message 89 by subbie, posted 11-12-2007 10:08 PM Aquilegia753 has responded

Taz
Member (Idle past 1455 days)
Posts: 5069
From: Zerus
Joined: 07-18-2006


Message 87 of 301 (433789)
11-12-2007 10:04 PM
Reply to: Message 86 by Aquilegia753
11-12-2007 9:53 PM


Re: why this still isn't evidence for young creation
Aquilegia753 writes:

I know this is a science forum, but I happen to believe that the Bible is historical. That if you dug deep enough around the Sinai Peninsula, you'd find Egyptian war equipment. That you will never find the body of Jesus, because there is no body to be found. I believe that a huge flood did cover the earth and alter its formations. Because I believe this, I will use the Bible in my evidence whenever I feel like.


I'm sure the creationists who have been trying for years to dissociate creationism with religion appreciate what you are doing. I'm surprised none of the admins have waved their magic wand at you yet.

But more to the point, what you have essentially confessed right there is you will never believe anything science has to offer. In other words, there really is no point for you to debate your beliefs. Your mind is made up. This, I might add, is exactly the opposite of what the creationist and intelligent design movements are suppose to be about.

PS - You didn't reply to me about the way the galaxies are being held together. I just want to know if my explanation made any sense to you. If need be, I'll draw some diagrams to help you understand it better.


Owing to the deficiency of the English language, I have occasionally used the academic jargon generator to produce phrases that even I don't fully understand. The jargons are not meant to offend anyone or to insult anyone's intelligence!
This message is a reply to:
 Message 86 by Aquilegia753, posted 11-12-2007 9:53 PM Aquilegia753 has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 90 by Aquilegia753, posted 11-12-2007 10:10 PM Taz has not yet responded

Aquilegia753
Member (Idle past 4064 days)
Posts: 113
Joined: 11-08-2007


Message 88 of 301 (433790)
11-12-2007 10:06 PM
Reply to: Message 85 by jar
11-12-2007 9:50 PM


Re: why this still isn't evidence for young creation

"People accept evolution because that is what the evidence shows. It is NOT a matter of belief."

Wrong! Belief: confidence in the truth or existence of something not immediately susceptible to rigorous proof, any cognitive content held as true.

Evolutionism is not, at the moment, a proven fact of our history and our past. Therefore, to hold it as truth requires belief. Therefore, you believe that evolutionism happened. You believe that this is a true thing. It takes belief to say 'this is true' without proving that it's a fact. It is a belief to say "I am an unproved cosmic coincadence of millions of years of evolution from a cell," not to say, "The earth is flat." You see, statement A is unproved, therefore requiring belief, statement B is proved, not requiring belief. Evolution is unproved, therefore it requires belief.

Also, why is it nonesense that nobody can prove what happened billions, millions, or even ten thousand years ago? Please elaborate.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 85 by jar, posted 11-12-2007 9:50 PM jar has responded

Replies to this message:
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subbie
Member
Posts: 3509
Joined: 02-26-2006


Message 89 of 301 (433791)
11-12-2007 10:08 PM
Reply to: Message 86 by Aquilegia753
11-12-2007 9:53 PM


Re: why this still isn't evidence for young creation
You are of course free to base your beliefs on what ever evidence you choose to. I wouldn't presume to tell you otherwise.

However, to the extent that you base your beliefs on one single source, a source that can be demonstrably shown to be in error in many instances, and a source that literally millions of people have different interpretations of, you have disqualified yourself from any science discussion.


Those who would sacrifice an essential liberty for a temporary security will lose both, and deserve neither. -- Benjamin Franklin

We see monsters where science shows us windmills. -- Phat


This message is a reply to:
 Message 86 by Aquilegia753, posted 11-12-2007 9:53 PM Aquilegia753 has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 91 by Aquilegia753, posted 11-12-2007 10:11 PM subbie has responded

Aquilegia753
Member (Idle past 4064 days)
Posts: 113
Joined: 11-08-2007


Message 90 of 301 (433792)
11-12-2007 10:10 PM
Reply to: Message 87 by Taz
11-12-2007 10:04 PM


Re: why this still isn't evidence for young creation
Yes, my mind is made up. There is a very small chance (I'm talking 1.00*10^-10000000%) of me changing my mind. However, I do want to know what people's arguments are. I'm here for the information. I want to be caught up in this debate, so I can understand what's going on. I debate to try and draw out more information. That is my goal, to understand. I'm in a school that doesn't teach evolution, so I'm wanting to know about it. I want to know both sides of the equation. That is why my debates seem to be half-hearted. I'm ill-informed.
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 Message 96 by Vacate, posted 11-12-2007 10:27 PM Aquilegia753 has not yet responded
 Message 100 by dwise1, posted 11-13-2007 4:05 PM Aquilegia753 has not yet responded
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