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Author Topic:   Evolution doesn't make sense.
crashfrog
Member (Idle past 250 days)
Posts: 19762
From: Silver Spring, MD
Joined: 03-20-2003


Message 57 of 80 (651416)
02-07-2012 12:28 PM
Reply to: Message 55 by amp1022
02-07-2012 12:09 PM


I am willing to bet I won't get a single straight answer referencing an actual recorded event.

You're right that you won't get a single answer, because here is a list of a dozen such records:

http://www.talkorigins.org/faqs/faq-speciation.html

It does, of course, take very many generations for a new species to arise from an old one, so we primarily observe it happening in species that reproduce quite quickly. But we can, of course, see evidence of speciation in both the fossil record and in the genetic code.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 55 by amp1022, posted 02-07-2012 12:09 PM amp1022 has not yet responded

  
crashfrog
Member (Idle past 250 days)
Posts: 19762
From: Silver Spring, MD
Joined: 03-20-2003


(1)
Message 68 of 80 (651684)
02-09-2012 9:01 AM
Reply to: Message 60 by amp1022
02-07-2012 7:50 PM


I took a long look at that, its a very long record of people finding variations in species (not one species becoming another)

Then you didn't actually read the list, because every single one of these is an example of one species becoming another. In fact, there's even a case where one family became another:

quote:
Boraas (1983) reported the induction of multicellularity in a strain of Chlorella pyrenoidosa (since reclassified as C. vulgaris) by predation. He was growing the unicellular green alga in the first stage of a two stage continuous culture system as for food for a flagellate predator, Ochromonas sp., that was growing in the second stage. Due to the failure of a pump, flagellates washed back into the first stage. Within five days a colonial form of the Chlorella appeared. It rapidly came to dominate the culture. The colony size ranged from 4 cells to 32 cells. Eventually it stabilized at 8 cells. This colonial form has persisted in culture for about a decade. The new form has been keyed out using a number of algal taxonomic keys. They key out now as being in the genus Coelosphaerium, which is in a different family from Chlorella.

Recall from your biology classes that "family" is the third canonical taxonomic group up from species (species, genus, family.) A family-level shift means that both a species and a genus-level shift also occurred (in the same way that if you move from one state to another, you necessarily move from one town to another and from one address to another.)

DESCRIBE one of the millions of examples of one species evolving into a completely different species.

I gave you a list of dozens of examples of one species turning into another species, which is exactly what you asked for. Now you want examples of "peas turning into jawbreakers"? Jawbreakers are candy, they're not even alive. Why would peas evolve into them? That makes no sense. Why would a theory of gradual change produce examples of extreme change? That makes no sense.

It's like saying that "creationism must be false if you cannot provide even a single example of a Koran spontaneously turning into a Bible." Evolution, like creationism, has to be tested according to what it actually says, not according to ridiculous things that everybody knows are impossible.

I'm debating whether I should even bother checking back for a straight answer.

Why bother? You won't read any of the examples. After all, the easiest way for you to continue saying that "there are no examples" is to remain purposefully ignorant of all the examples we've already provided. We can show you the examples, Amp, but we can't make you read them, or convince you to stop lying about them.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 60 by amp1022, posted 02-07-2012 7:50 PM amp1022 has not yet responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 69 by Wounded King, posted 02-09-2012 10:28 AM crashfrog has responded

  
crashfrog
Member (Idle past 250 days)
Posts: 19762
From: Silver Spring, MD
Joined: 03-20-2003


Message 70 of 80 (651701)
02-09-2012 12:28 PM
Reply to: Message 69 by Wounded King
02-09-2012 10:28 AM


Some cells sticking together doesn't make them a new family. The fact that taxonomic keys are a rather inexact tool is hardly a compelling argument for such a grand claim.

I've not made any claim except that, morphologically, they key out as being in a different family.

What else would even be evolutionarily possible?


This message is a reply to:
 Message 69 by Wounded King, posted 02-09-2012 10:28 AM Wounded King has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 71 by Wounded King, posted 02-09-2012 12:43 PM crashfrog has not yet responded

  
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