Longest Land Meridian

Well, I think I can set your mind at rest. Disproving the LLM claim cannot disprove the center of land mass claim. They are completely independent.I can provide an illustration by going back to my car example. Let's say you claimed your car was 14 feet long and that the antennae on the roof was at the center of the car's body surface area, and we then challenged this claim. We then measure your car's length and find that is actually 15 feet long. What does that do to your claim that the antennae is at the center of the car's surface area? Nothing. The two are independent.The LLM claim and the center of land mass claim are independent in the same way. Proving or disproving one has no effect upon the other?Let me try to answer the other of your questions that are within my ability. No one's ignoring Message 5. We're just pointing out that you are operating under the misimpression that there is a linkage between issues that are actually independent. There is no land under the North Pole. It's only ice. It is the South Pole that has a continent under it, Antarctica. You assumed wrong. Reread your own Message 5 where you quote this from Rutherford: The GP meridian described here goes between the two poles through the GP apex. It does not go around the other side of the globe. That meridian is referred to here in your quote as the "nether meridian".Also note that each claim is in it's own paragraph. That's because they're independent. No, it doesn't. That would not be a legitimate comparison. Just to absolutely perfectly clear, here is what we're comparing:

1. The distance along a meridian from pole to pole through the GP apex.
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2. The distance along a meridian from pole to pole through a point a few hundred miles west of the GP.

But your sources provide no data for the LLM claim. That's why Lindum produced the data himself, and now we're trying to verify the accuracy of that data. And you can confirm or disprove Lindum's data by simply going to a map. Please let us know if we can help you use a map to check the figures for yourself and confirm that this is the distance from the GP apex along a meridian to the Mediterranean coast of Egypt: --Percy

Well, WT, if the determination of the distance is too hard I think it would be polite of you to say you've given up on this.

I guess we just have to keep reminding everyone of WT's habit of running away. This is such a good example!

I just will not depart the claims of my sources in context.I find it insulting to think you can coax me into subjectively confiming opponents claim.We have sources for a reason.If my sources are wrong then how come nobody can produce a source refuting the entire claim ?We have web sites asserting the claim is incorrect but nobody refuting the precise claim with documentation.The LLM claim resides in the center, it appeared there first.I have given you way more respect than you ever did me in this whole issue.If I behaved like you in evolution topics I would of been run out of town.This message has been edited by WILLOWTREE, 08-19-2004 02:35 PM

Actually, they're trying to get you to objectively confirm or falsify Symth's LLM claim. This should not be a battle of testimony vs. testimony, but rather an examination using objective evidence (in this case, a map/atlas). Science does not proceed by scientists "precisely" refuting each other's conclusions, but by analysis of all available evidence. Whether or not they appeared together does not indicate interdependence of the measurements. Do you understand yet that the two claims are independent measurements? I thought Percy's car analogy above would be quite helpful...It is really quite sad that you think analysis of geography is somehow disrespectful to you. If you are so sure of your sources, you should welcome the chance to objectively confirm their claims.The LLM is the easiest one to start with.

WILLOWTREE-Perhaps this will help you understand why the LLM and center of area claims are not the same thing. This is a simple exercise that has no bearing on the claims of your sources, so hopefully you'll give it a chance.Here is a hypothetical world map I've made, green is land (one continent on this world), blue is water: Please estimate the LLM, the LLP, and the center of area for the land on this map.Does the intersection of the LLM and LLP overlap with the center of area point?If not, how close together are the two points?Are the three measurements independent of each other?If not, how are they related?

Hi, WillowTree!I responded to your earlier concerns in Message 46. No response is necessary if you're satisfied with the explanations. I'll try now to address your additional concerns. No one is asking you to. We're just asking you to examine the claims of your sources. In the case of this thread, that's the LLM claim. Don't you think a proof of the existence of God should be examined to be certain it's accurate and true? There is nothing subjective about verifying distances on a map. Opinion doesn't enter into it, and there's nothing subjective about it. Everyone will come up with the same answer of roughy 112 miles, which is what happens when something is objective. First, we're not addressing the "entire claim" in this thread, only the LLM claim. Normally, examining the LLM claim would entail checking all the land distances provided in your source's table for the LLM to see if they are correct, and then adding them all together. Unfortunately, your source doesn't provide such a table, and I suspect that is why no one has bothered to refute it.Normally one would only have to point to a map for someone to grant that the meridian Lindum found to the west crosses more land than the GP meridian, but since you wouldn't grant the point by simple inspection we are now trying to examine each land segment on each meridian to prove to ourselves which is longer.For reference, here once again are the numbers for the first line of the GP meridian table: It should be a simple matter to examine a map and confirm that this is really the distance from the GP apex north to the Mediterranean coast of Egypt.--Percy

Hi WT,The LLM claim is very simple, and I'm concerned that you've so far been unable to address it after several weeks of asking. Alas, your post 5 contains no actual measurements to confirm your claim, and thus we are left to work it out for ourselves. Luckily this is not too difficult.If you believe the LLM claim is tied to the centre of land mass claim, then please explain how so; pink sasquatch's post 51 should also be addressed with this.Both offline and online methods of measurements have been suggested, however, if these are inadequate then please indicate so, and further resources may be sought out for you.As it stands, this simple question still remains unanswered: This is a simple task, where you have the possibility to refute my measurements.Cheers.

Such a simple question for WT, and yet still no answer...

I'm wondering whether it's time to bring this to a close. Whatever the reasons, WillowTree is evidently not going to work with us to check the LLM claim.--Percy

And with this closing I think we can put all the claims into the unsupported bucket. It's not going to be the last time.

Yup time to close it.edited to simply say it is time.This message has been edited by jar, 08-21-2004 11:55 AM

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Aslan is not a Tame Lion

I agree, put it to bed. WT's prevarication on this subject is now beyond tedious.

Or restrict WT to only this thread? answer it and the rest of the rights renewed?

That would be good, if practicable - but prepare to duck for the ensuing explosion that'd be sure to follow! This message has been edited by Lindum, 08-21-2004 06:25 PM