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Author Topic:   The Creationist Method
Rob 
Suspended Member (Idle past 5869 days)
Posts: 2297
Joined: 06-01-2006


Message 87 of 93 (424850)
09-29-2007 12:15 AM
Reply to: Message 84 by Chiroptera
09-12-2007 8:37 AM


Re: The ID Method
Chiroptera:
Any IDists who actually know what they're talking about -- not just parroting some semi-literate apologetics web page, but actually understand Dembski and/or Behe's arguments and methods -- please take the time to inform us.
It's called the design inference...
Why don't you listen to Dembski, Kenyon, Johnson, Wells, Myers and Behe themselves?
Just scroll down to Kenyon writing on the chalkboard (clip 5) and click the YouTube play button: Abiogenesis Watch all 7 clips

This message is a reply to:
 Message 84 by Chiroptera, posted 09-12-2007 8:37 AM Chiroptera has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 88 by PaulK, posted 09-29-2007 3:27 AM Rob has not replied
 Message 89 by Lithodid-Man, posted 09-29-2007 7:44 AM Rob has replied

  
Rob 
Suspended Member (Idle past 5869 days)
Posts: 2297
Joined: 06-01-2006


Message 90 of 93 (424932)
09-29-2007 10:26 AM
Reply to: Message 89 by Lithodid-Man
09-29-2007 7:44 AM


Re: The ID Method
Lithodid-Man writes:
This video (with beautiful graphics!) skips the entire RNA process (maybe on purpose?). And RNA can both replicate and make proteins in the absence of DNA. And RNA sequences can form spontaneously in clays. All of these facts are available and known to the people at the Discovery Institute, but they choose to ignore/deny them. Still think them reliable and honest?
Actually, it is clip 6 that covers the RNA stuff your talking about. I don't know why you would have problems with the other clips. You might just have to refresh the page.
And RNA does not spontaniously form in clays. It forms when minerals are exposed to nucleobases (assumed to be prexisting) and other catalyzing components.
Our studies had demonstrated that RNA monomers can
bind efficiently to clays, but would the clays catalyze the
formation of RNA oligomers? Initial success came with
experiments that exposed Na-montmorillonite to a solution
containing nucleotides and carbodiimide (RN=C=R; a
so-called “condensing agent” that induces polymerization
reactions).
....
...An important aspect of this RNA oligomer formation is
sequence selectivity”the preferential linkage of different
nucleotides with bases A, C, G, or U. In experiments where
we began with equal amounts of these four bases
, clay
catalysis resulted in the formation of a non-uniform distribution
of the 16 possible pair sequences
( http://www.origins.rpi.edu/pdf/elemv1n3_145_150.pdf )
Maybe you have some other work you're referring to, but I predict the result will be the same.
It's not spontaneous as they've told us or implied. It's spontaneous only after intelligent engineers manipulate the clay and introduce nucleobases and other components that cannot be accounted for in the clays themselves.
The interest in clay templates for RNA synthesis is very simmilar to the interest in carbonaceous meteorites. You may want to read what we have already covered in a thread on that subject: http://EvC Forum: Murchison Meteor Questions -->EvC Forum: Murchison Meteor Questions
I don't think it would be appropriate to get into a deabate about this here...
Edited by Rob, : No reason given.
Edited by Rob, : No reason given.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 89 by Lithodid-Man, posted 09-29-2007 7:44 AM Lithodid-Man has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 91 by ringo, posted 09-29-2007 11:34 AM Rob has not replied
 Message 92 by Lithodid-Man, posted 09-30-2007 5:39 AM Rob has not replied
 Message 93 by RAZD, posted 09-30-2007 8:44 AM Rob has not replied

  
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