Register | Sign In


Understanding through Discussion


EvC Forum active members: 66 (9164 total)
6 online now:
Newest Member: ChatGPT
Post Volume: Total: 916,465 Year: 3,722/9,624 Month: 593/974 Week: 206/276 Day: 46/34 Hour: 2/6


Thread  Details

Email This Thread
Newer Topic | Older Topic
  
Author Topic:   Comparing the Evolution of Language and Biological Evolution
ohnhai
Member (Idle past 5184 days)
Posts: 649
From: Melbourne, Australia
Joined: 11-17-2004


Message 24 of 34 (251926)
10-15-2005 7:36 AM
Reply to: Message 23 by Tusko
10-15-2005 6:16 AM


Re: Recap:
Whatever model of evolution you end up pinning on language, my guess is it will be decidedly Lamarckian in nature as un-like organisms beyond bacteria and their like, languages DO transfer acquired traits on to the next generation.
memes would be like viruses that have the ability to become endogenous and become a part of the host languages core information structure.
and if you need to see speciation of languages in action then you need to look at smaller enclaves of humans that are separated from the whole by work, interest or other social stress (ethnic, financial, or ideological).
These factors put pressure on the individuals and new terminology is created or adapted to fit their situation. In a short period of time this can lead to a linguistic version of speciation.
To see this clearly you only need to look at the online gaming community that has it’s own distinctly unique language. 1 t3h 1337 H4x0r Pnwd your n00b 455 ( or something like that)
The separation of languages by geographical separation is (today) far slower or non-existent mainly due to the global media. After all most changes that happened between English, American English and Australian English happened before the emergence of modern communications tech. And now all the variants of English are merging back into one as the different arms are being saturated with experience of each other. It is the niche communities where the true evolution of language is taking place.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 23 by Tusko, posted 10-15-2005 6:16 AM Tusko has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 26 by Tusko, posted 10-15-2005 11:26 AM ohnhai has replied

  
ohnhai
Member (Idle past 5184 days)
Posts: 649
From: Melbourne, Australia
Joined: 11-17-2004


Message 29 of 34 (252061)
10-15-2005 10:09 PM
Reply to: Message 26 by Tusko
10-15-2005 11:26 AM


Re: Recap:
You can understand where Lamarck went wrong, but at the same time was closer than he thought. After all the son of a Smithy would indeed be likely to exhibit the same musculature as his dad. Not through large muscles being inherited after the Smith had developed them but through the inheritance of the genetic structure that allowed large muscles to be developed. If anything like inheritance is responsible for the son developing the same muscle mass as his dad then it will be that the son inherited the same job, that made the same demands of a similar body, with similar results.
As to Lamarckian evolution and DNA then I’m sure parallels could be drawn if the DNA of an individual’s reproductive cells were altered during their life. For example Radiation can and does damage DNA and more often than not damages these cells enough to render them infertile (invalid). So yes we can conceive and observe individual cases where a form of Lamarckian transfer happens but beyond single celled organisms and regular plasmid transfers Lamarckian transfer is not a valid model for biological evolution.
For language on the other hand cross-pollination is always happening. After all language does have a je ne sais quoi when it comes to borrowing bits of other languages.
It’s obvious that virtually all language can mix and merge with other languages. In this light, if there is no true barrier for bits of one to become a part of another then if we are talking in biological terms, then there is no true speciation of language, because they on the whole can breed with each other.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 26 by Tusko, posted 10-15-2005 11:26 AM Tusko has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 30 by RAZD, posted 10-15-2005 11:05 PM ohnhai has not replied

  
Newer Topic | Older Topic
Jump to:


Copyright 2001-2023 by EvC Forum, All Rights Reserved

™ Version 4.2
Innovative software from Qwixotic © 2024