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Author Topic:   Best approaches to deal w/ fundamentalism
Granny Magda
Member (Idle past 115 days)
Posts: 2462
From: UK
Joined: 11-12-2007


Message 121 of 142 (502812)
03-13-2009 1:33 PM
Reply to: Message 120 by Sky-Writing
03-13-2009 1:16 PM


Re: Theoretical Answer
Edited by AdminModulous, : off topic post hidden

"The Bible is like a person, and if you torture it long enough, you can get it to say almost anything you'd like it to say." -- Rev. Dr. Francis H. Wade

This message is a reply to:
 Message 120 by Sky-Writing, posted 03-13-2009 1:16 PM Sky-Writing has replied

Replies to this message:
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Theodoric
Member
Posts: 9272
From: Northwest, WI, USA
Joined: 08-15-2005
Member Rating: 2.8


Message 122 of 142 (502813)
03-13-2009 1:34 PM
Reply to: Message 119 by Sky-Writing
03-13-2009 1:02 PM


Re: Silly Questions Abound
Edited by AdminModulous, : off topic post hidden

Facts don't lie or have an agenda. Facts are just facts

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Coragyps
Member (Idle past 811 days)
Posts: 5553
From: Snyder, Texas, USA
Joined: 11-12-2002


Message 123 of 142 (502816)
03-13-2009 1:53 PM
Reply to: Message 119 by Sky-Writing
03-13-2009 1:02 PM


Re: Silly Questions Abound
Edited by AdminModulous, : off topic post hidden

"The wretched world lies now under the tyranny of foolishness; things are believed by Christians of such absurdity as no one ever could aforetime induce the heathen to believe." - Agobard of Lyons, ca. 830 AD

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NosyNed
Member
Posts: 9006
From: Canada
Joined: 04-04-2003


Message 124 of 142 (502819)
03-13-2009 1:59 PM
Reply to: Message 119 by Sky-Writing
03-13-2009 1:02 PM


Coal and Oil
Edited by AdminModulous, : off topic post hidden

This message is a reply to:
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Replies to this message:
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Taq
Member
Posts: 10158
Joined: 03-06-2009
Member Rating: 4.8


Message 125 of 142 (502820)
03-13-2009 2:11 PM
Reply to: Message 120 by Sky-Writing
03-13-2009 1:16 PM


Re: Theoretical Answer
Edited by AdminModulous, : off topic post hidden

This message is a reply to:
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Sky-Writing
Member (Idle past 5228 days)
Posts: 162
From: Milwaukee, WI, United States
Joined: 03-12-2009


Message 126 of 142 (502822)
03-13-2009 2:20 PM
Reply to: Message 121 by Granny Magda
03-13-2009 1:33 PM


Re: Theoretical Answer
Edited by AdminModulous, : off topic post hidden

- Sky-

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Sky-Writing
Member (Idle past 5228 days)
Posts: 162
From: Milwaukee, WI, United States
Joined: 03-12-2009


Message 127 of 142 (502825)
03-13-2009 2:32 PM
Reply to: Message 124 by NosyNed
03-13-2009 1:59 PM


Re: Coal and Oil
Edited by AdminModulous, : off topic post hidden

This message is a reply to:
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AdminModulous
Administrator
Posts: 897
Joined: 03-02-2006


Message 128 of 142 (502826)
03-13-2009 2:33 PM


Way off topic
Closing this down for a while. This is not a thread to discuss oil, barnacles or dog breeding...unless Macgyver wants to post about how he could cover barnacles in oil, stick them to the back of a specially bred dog, point them in the direction of fundamentalists and ignite. Or something.
Thank you.

  
AdminModulous
Administrator
Posts: 897
Joined: 03-02-2006


Message 129 of 142 (502848)
03-13-2009 5:26 PM


--Reopened--
Thread reopened. No more off topic stuff please. Suspensions will follow for those that insist.

  
alaninnont
Member (Idle past 5513 days)
Posts: 107
Joined: 02-27-2009


Message 130 of 142 (503132)
03-16-2009 9:48 AM


There is a very interesting study by psychologists Kari Edwards and Edward Smith A Disconfirmation Bias in the Evaluation of Arguments, (Journal of Personality and Social Psychology, 1996, Vol. 71, No. 1, 5-24)that presented the same evidence to two groups of people who had opposing views. The result was that the groups became even more polarized.
It doesn't matter which side you're dealing with, it is highly unlikely that argument will persuade individuals to change their ideas because both sides filter information through their belief system.
In my opinion, if you're on these forums to try and persuade others that you are right and they are wrong, you're wasting your time.

Replies to this message:
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Percy
Member
Posts: 22606
From: New Hampshire
Joined: 12-23-2000
Member Rating: 4.9


Message 131 of 142 (503134)
03-16-2009 9:55 AM
Reply to: Message 130 by alaninnont
03-16-2009 9:48 AM


alaninnont writes:
In my opinion, if you're on these forums to try and persuade others that you are right and they are wrong, you're wasting your time.
You're probably right. The positive influences of discussion boards like this are probably limited to those still making up their minds, and perhaps to placing a seed doubt in some fundamentalists that might take root sometime down the road.
That still leaves open the question of how best to deal with fundamentalism. If they can't be persuaded to change their views, and if they can't even be persuaded to leave science alone and keep religion in church, what are we to do?
--Percy

This message is a reply to:
 Message 130 by alaninnont, posted 03-16-2009 9:48 AM alaninnont has replied

Replies to this message:
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 Message 134 by Woodsy, posted 03-16-2009 11:56 AM Percy has not replied

  
alaninnont
Member (Idle past 5513 days)
Posts: 107
Joined: 02-27-2009


Message 132 of 142 (503138)
03-16-2009 10:45 AM
Reply to: Message 131 by Percy
03-16-2009 9:55 AM


I'm not an expert in pyschology but I have noticed some things in dealing with people.
1. You can't change people's mind by force. They have to want to change.
2. People retreat to defensive, well fortified positions when threatened. It then becomes even harder to move them.
3. War is destructive. Sitting in your bunker shooting artillary may possibly win a battle but the resistance will continue until you completely wipe out the enemy in which case you have an unhealthy dictatorship which will eventually fall.
4. The moral high ground often has the best success in opening up people's minds. If someone treats you like a jerk and you go all Ghandi on them, they tend to look at their actions with shame and begin to question themselves.
If they can't be persuaded to change their views, and if they can't even be persuaded to leave science alone and keep religion in church, what are we to do?
I think that science should not be left alone. It should be constantly challenged and questioned. That is part of what science is. I say bring 'em on. In the past, any theory that is valid has eventually won the day.
"Greater than the tread of mighty armies is an idea whose time has come."
Victor Hugo

This message is a reply to:
 Message 131 by Percy, posted 03-16-2009 9:55 AM Percy has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 133 by Coyote, posted 03-16-2009 11:13 AM alaninnont has not replied
 Message 135 by Percy, posted 03-16-2009 1:31 PM alaninnont has not replied
 Message 136 by onifre, posted 03-16-2009 3:59 PM alaninnont has replied

  
Coyote
Member (Idle past 2183 days)
Posts: 6117
Joined: 01-12-2008


Message 133 of 142 (503143)
03-16-2009 11:13 AM
Reply to: Message 132 by alaninnont
03-16-2009 10:45 AM


Fundamentalism
I think that science should not be left alone. It should be constantly challenged and questioned. That is part of what science is. I say bring 'em on. In the past, any theory that is valid has eventually won the day.
Fundamentalists do not accept scientific evidence. I've been told by one that "divine revelation is the highest form of knowledge."
They are not out to improve science by challenging theories. They are out to destroy science because those theories conflict with their religious beliefs.
Tough to meet that halfway.

Religious belief does not constitute scientific evidence, nor does it convey scientific knowledge.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 132 by alaninnont, posted 03-16-2009 10:45 AM alaninnont has not replied

  
Woodsy
Member (Idle past 3451 days)
Posts: 301
From: Burlington, Canada
Joined: 08-30-2006


Message 134 of 142 (503146)
03-16-2009 11:56 AM
Reply to: Message 131 by Percy
03-16-2009 9:55 AM


I have read a suggestion that the only useful thing to do might be very persistent ridicule. I wonder if people could laugh them out of it.
If it became socially unacceptable to hold extreme religious views, they might wither away faster. Sort of like racism today.

This message is a reply to:
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Percy
Member
Posts: 22606
From: New Hampshire
Joined: 12-23-2000
Member Rating: 4.9


Message 135 of 142 (503154)
03-16-2009 1:31 PM
Reply to: Message 132 by alaninnont
03-16-2009 10:45 AM


alaninont writes:
I think that science should not be left alone. It should be constantly challenged and questioned. That is part of what science is. I say bring 'em on. In the past, any theory that is valid has eventually won the day.
I think almost everyone here would agree, including myself. The problem is that fundamentalist take their challenges and questions not to science but to school boards and state legislatures. So elaborating my earlier question just a bit it becomes, "Given that they won't take their issues to the halls of science, and given that they won't change their minds and won't keep their religion in church, what is to be done?"
--Percy

This message is a reply to:
 Message 132 by alaninnont, posted 03-16-2009 10:45 AM alaninnont has not replied

  
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