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Author Topic:   Before Big Bang God or Singularity
Phat
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Posts: 18295
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
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Message 251 of 405 (453440)
02-02-2008 8:39 AM
Reply to: Message 241 by Son Goku
02-02-2008 4:31 AM


Nobody knows. Neither Theologian nor Scientist.
Tesla writes:
my question again, what energy was present at the coordinates T=0?
SonGoku writes:
Nobody knows, because there is no working theory of that period.
Keep in mind that in a Cosmology Forum, the scientists should never be on the defensive. Theologians accept what they read on faith. That is all any of us have in that area of speculation.
While these questions are good and will hopefully help there to be greater understanding between science and faith, we do have to defer to the discipline of science as being cautious and tentative when considering any answers to otherwise philosophical questions.

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 Message 241 by Son Goku, posted 02-02-2008 4:31 AM Son Goku has not replied

Phat
Member
Posts: 18295
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.1


Message 253 of 405 (453444)
02-02-2008 8:46 AM
Reply to: Message 252 by tesla
02-02-2008 8:42 AM


Re: Re-Orgin
tesla writes:
the first element of T=0 being 1.
I'll play along! How do we know that this first element is 1?

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 Message 252 by tesla, posted 02-02-2008 8:42 AM tesla has replied

Replies to this message:
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Phat
Member
Posts: 18295
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.1


Message 256 of 405 (453448)
02-02-2008 8:51 AM
Reply to: Message 250 by ICANT
02-02-2008 8:29 AM


Lets Keep In Mind That We Are Discussing Hypothesis
I CANT writes:
I have questions that have not been answered. The only way I know to get them answered is to keep asking until somebody answers them.
One problem that I see here is this:
Scientists are geared towards asking questions and testing them. Scientists do not assume any answers.
Theologians, by nature of their very belief, assume answers on a daily basis and use other written answers to back them up.
Carry on, guys...just thought I would clear that up before our philosophy thread continues!

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Phat
Member
Posts: 18295
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.1


Message 258 of 405 (453451)
02-02-2008 9:03 AM
Reply to: Message 257 by tesla
02-02-2008 8:52 AM


Re: Re-Orgin
tesla writes:
the evolution can be followed to a real place where the evolution started from.
In a scientific sense, we can only follow where the clues lead us. Thats why we are asking the physicists questions!
tesla writes:
that real place is T=0
Don't you mean, in a strict sense, that the real place was T=0?
Keep in mind that we humans are finite...at least evidentially.
For us to know something with any certainty that happened before we were around would require either insight or proof. Scientists look for proof and a trail to test and reconstruct.
Theologians pray for insight, BTW.

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 Message 257 by tesla, posted 02-02-2008 8:52 AM tesla has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 259 by tesla, posted 02-02-2008 9:06 AM Phat has replied

Phat
Member
Posts: 18295
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.1


Message 260 of 405 (453455)
02-02-2008 9:11 AM
Reply to: Message 259 by tesla
02-02-2008 9:06 AM


Re: Re-Orgin
I have no way of knowing if T=0 is true. I assume that it is the best hypotheis that science an/or Cosmology has. I can read what Hawking has to say on the matter, but I am unable to fully comprehend his arguments. Here at EvC, Son Goku and Cavediver both have a better grip on the path that led to the hupothesis of t=0 existing, so that is in essence why we have scientific philosophy threads. My point is that neither side knows anything absolutely because neither side was there at that point. (Unless you believe that all matter past present and future was at that point, in which case I may have been there in some form!

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 Message 259 by tesla, posted 02-02-2008 9:06 AM tesla has replied

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Phat
Member
Posts: 18295
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.1


Message 283 of 405 (453593)
02-03-2008 11:21 AM
Reply to: Message 280 by Son Goku
02-03-2008 10:04 AM


Re: Big Bang.
Son Goku writes:
The universe is in a small, hot and dense state at around 13.7 billion years. It expands from that state and eventually turns into the universe we see today.
OK
I have a question. Do many of the Cosmologists believe that the universe had a time prior to the hot dense state where it again was large, as it is now?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 280 by Son Goku, posted 02-03-2008 10:04 AM Son Goku has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 284 by Son Goku, posted 02-03-2008 11:33 AM Phat has replied

Phat
Member
Posts: 18295
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.1


Message 285 of 405 (453598)
02-03-2008 11:54 AM
Reply to: Message 284 by Son Goku
02-03-2008 11:33 AM


Re: Big Bang.
Son Goku writes:
I wouldn't quite say there is anybody who believes anything about the period. Most are skeptical of even their own models.
I respect this, and would present it as the prime difference between Theological Faith/Belief models and scientific models. Skepticism is welcomed in Science, discouraged in Faith/Belief.

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 Message 284 by Son Goku, posted 02-03-2008 11:33 AM Son Goku has not replied

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