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Author Topic:   Proof and analysis of Biblical end time accuracey
umliak
Inactive Member


Message 1 of 66 (170599)
12-21-2004 8:24 PM



Replies to this message:
 Message 3 by Coragyps, posted 12-21-2004 9:15 PM umliak has replied
 Message 4 by Brian, posted 12-22-2004 1:48 AM umliak has replied
 Message 5 by Phat, posted 12-22-2004 4:42 AM umliak has not replied
 Message 11 by mikehager, posted 12-22-2004 3:05 PM umliak has replied

Adminnemooseus
Administrator
Posts: 3974
Joined: 09-26-2002


Message 2 of 66 (170604)
12-21-2004 8:29 PM


Opening admin comments
This topic started out with a very long, complex message 1. It went through a fair amount of review and editing to get it where it now is.
I still don't really know what to make of it, but the originator did seem to put a lot of effort into getting it into a releasable form, and I think s/he should be rewarded for such.
Message 1 of the "Proposed New Topic" has been spun off to become this new topic.
Adminnemooseus

Coragyps
Member (Idle past 735 days)
Posts: 5553
From: Snyder, Texas, USA
Joined: 11-12-2002


Message 3 of 66 (170615)
12-21-2004 9:15 PM
Reply to: Message 1 by umliak
12-21-2004 8:24 PM


I really don't know what to make of it either - the second sentence stopped me for a minute, though. "Round and a sphere" in three places? Really? We've been over this ground here before, and "sphere" just ain't there in the text. That's not a real good start for a "Bible accuracy" thread.
This message has been edited by Coragyps, 12-21-2004 09:15 PM

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1 by umliak, posted 12-21-2004 8:24 PM umliak has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 6 by umliak, posted 12-22-2004 1:49 PM Coragyps has replied

Brian
Member (Idle past 4959 days)
Posts: 4659
From: Scotland
Joined: 10-22-2002


Message 4 of 66 (170636)
12-22-2004 1:48 AM
Reply to: Message 1 by umliak
12-21-2004 8:24 PM


Hi,
There's a whole lot of stuff in there that you take for granted and you do not attempt to justify your conclusions to others.
For example, this particular claim is confusing:
So you see life is a cycle of life and death; it's a perfect creation.
This is difficult to accept, given that death was not originally part of creation, and only entered because of mankind's sin. Thus, you are claiming that God created sin as part of His perfect creation, this does not make sense at all.
Brian.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1 by umliak, posted 12-21-2004 8:24 PM umliak has replied

Replies to this message:
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Phat
Member
Posts: 18262
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.1


Message 5 of 66 (170647)
12-22-2004 4:42 AM
Reply to: Message 1 by umliak
12-21-2004 8:24 PM


Wow! A great effort and somewhat poetic, umliak! Is this your interpretation of the meaning of life in a nutshell? I am curious. Are you influenced by some things that you have read, or are you giving us your written opinion of the meanings contained in your thread?
Do you see us all becoming a great ashes to ashes, dust to dust sort of finale whereafter the curtain lifts and God the director comes on stage to renew us?
Often we (here at EvC) quibble over the meaning and purpose of our future. Some of us believe that humanity is imperfect and is predestined to end in its current state. God will intervene and correct our bullish free wills. Meaning is found in our relationship to God.
Others of us, Sidelined and Rrhain come to mind, offer that we are mere bit actors in a much larger universal drama. We are part of a cosmic dance of creativity which is an ongoing and vibrant march towards greater diversity and form. To them, the meaning is not to be focused on us as dancers, but the meaning and homage is to be paid to the dance itself!
Whaddaya think, umliak? Any further thoughts?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1 by umliak, posted 12-21-2004 8:24 PM umliak has not replied

umliak
Inactive Member


Message 6 of 66 (170801)
12-22-2004 1:49 PM
Reply to: Message 3 by Coragyps
12-21-2004 9:15 PM



This message is a reply to:
 Message 3 by Coragyps, posted 12-21-2004 9:15 PM Coragyps has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 7 by Brian, posted 12-22-2004 2:11 PM umliak has replied
 Message 15 by Coragyps, posted 12-22-2004 4:18 PM umliak has not replied

Brian
Member (Idle past 4959 days)
Posts: 4659
From: Scotland
Joined: 10-22-2002


Message 7 of 66 (170815)
12-22-2004 2:11 PM
Reply to: Message 6 by umliak
12-22-2004 1:49 PM


Hi,
I believe much of the Bible is literal.
Eh, of course much of it is literal, it is trying to prove which parts are literal that is the difficult bit.
For example, do you believe that Lamech lived for 777 years, 653 years, or 753 years?
Or is Lamech's age one of those things we should not take literally?
Brian.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 6 by umliak, posted 12-22-2004 1:49 PM umliak has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 9 by umliak, posted 12-22-2004 2:40 PM Brian has not replied

umliak
Inactive Member


Message 8 of 66 (170832)
12-22-2004 2:28 PM
Reply to: Message 4 by Brian
12-22-2004 1:48 AM



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 Message 4 by Brian, posted 12-22-2004 1:48 AM Brian has not replied

umliak
Inactive Member


Message 9 of 66 (170838)
12-22-2004 2:40 PM
Reply to: Message 7 by Brian
12-22-2004 2:11 PM


quote:
Eh, of course much of it is literal, it is trying to prove which parts are literal that is the difficult bit.
For example, do you believe that Lamech lived for 777 years, 653 years, or 753 years?
Or is Lamech's age one of those things we should not take literally?
Brian.
Forgive my vagueness. I meant much of the Bible is literal to earth now; or, the dying aspect which we are in now. Whereas a lot of it is literal to spirit and heaven...and many people go around thinking of things as being of invisible heavenly events correlating to earth which we will not see on earth, or in this planet but on some other plain (while this is true, I believe much of the Bible is physically involved AS WELL as being heavenly and spiritually). Such as the trumpets being sounded. I think they may be literal descriptions by a prophet who was seeing these visions. For instance, a mushroom cloud: it makes a loud sound, and is gigantic. It also looks similar to a trumpet; which a prophet, I propose, could have used to describe it. Something like a mushroom cloud (or huge bomb) exploding can have dramatic influences across the entire earth's body and health, changing the environment everywhere and for everything. Such a trumpet could then trigger heavenly plagues on earth.
If one were to bomb the north pole, for instance, he could support in creating massive, massive dramatic problems everywhere. Even if one were to bomb the ocean with an atomic bomb, you could create tidal waves and do much damage. So why not suggest such bombs and events could trigger events the Bible tells us of? If you bomb and island, I believe this disrupts earthly health, in some way, and so can cause massive problems everywhere. The earth is one body. War here can affect social climates across the globe. So many things in the Bible are probably more literal than men take them to be.

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 Message 7 by Brian, posted 12-22-2004 2:11 PM Brian has not replied

Replies to this message:
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Maestro232
Inactive Member


Message 10 of 66 (170846)
12-22-2004 2:55 PM
Reply to: Message 9 by umliak
12-22-2004 2:40 PM


Umliak,
Maybe you can help me in the "The relevence of Biblical claims to science" forum in "Misc Topics"

This message is a reply to:
 Message 9 by umliak, posted 12-22-2004 2:40 PM umliak has not replied

mikehager
Member (Idle past 6467 days)
Posts: 534
Joined: 09-02-2004


Message 11 of 66 (170851)
12-22-2004 3:05 PM
Reply to: Message 1 by umliak
12-21-2004 8:24 PM


The same old same old.
Again, we're hearing the same old stuff. Maybe you can help me on two little points.
First, give me one good reason I should accept the Bible over the Prose and Poetic Eddas or the Koran or any of the countless oral traditions about gods and creation and so forth.
Second, show why a mythic mindset is valid in the first place. Why do we need gods?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1 by umliak, posted 12-21-2004 8:24 PM umliak has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 12 by umliak, posted 12-22-2004 3:16 PM mikehager has replied

umliak
Inactive Member


Message 12 of 66 (170863)
12-22-2004 3:16 PM
Reply to: Message 11 by mikehager
12-22-2004 3:05 PM


Re: The same old same old.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 11 by mikehager, posted 12-22-2004 3:05 PM mikehager has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 13 by mikehager, posted 12-22-2004 4:01 PM umliak has replied
 Message 14 by crashfrog, posted 12-22-2004 4:04 PM umliak has replied

mikehager
Member (Idle past 6467 days)
Posts: 534
Joined: 09-02-2004


Message 13 of 66 (170892)
12-22-2004 4:01 PM
Reply to: Message 12 by umliak
12-22-2004 3:16 PM


Re: The same old same old.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 12 by umliak, posted 12-22-2004 3:16 PM umliak has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 16 by umliak, posted 12-22-2004 11:02 PM mikehager has replied

crashfrog
Member (Idle past 1467 days)
Posts: 19762
From: Silver Spring, MD
Joined: 03-20-2003


Message 14 of 66 (170893)
12-22-2004 4:04 PM
Reply to: Message 12 by umliak
12-22-2004 3:16 PM


Also, as I've shown, the Bible accurately describes the earth long before it was really known or believed by the world or people--or even proven, as by photographs and modern science (the world being round and circular).
The ancient Greeks had known, and proven, that the Earth was spherical, long before it was written in the Bible. Not only that but they'd quite accurately measured it's diameter.
The accuracey of earth is a pretty strong pointer to supporting the Bible and its truth.
Uh, the fact that the Bible writers were able to write down something that was fairly common knowledge among intelligentia in the ancient world doesn't speak at all to it's accuracy. Moreover, the accuracy of one statement in a work can't be used to substantiate other, unrelated statements. After all, I could write a book that said:
1) The sky is blue.
2) 1 + 1 = 2.
3) I can move objects simply with the power of my mind.
The fact that 1 and 2 are undeniably true doesn't substantiate 3.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 12 by umliak, posted 12-22-2004 3:16 PM umliak has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 18 by umliak, posted 12-22-2004 11:19 PM crashfrog has replied

Coragyps
Member (Idle past 735 days)
Posts: 5553
From: Snyder, Texas, USA
Joined: 11-12-2002


Message 15 of 66 (170902)
12-22-2004 4:18 PM
Reply to: Message 6 by umliak
12-22-2004 1:49 PM


Clay under a seal is clearly describing the earth as circuluar
Thanks for that verse: it proves my point even further. Clay under a seal will indeed be circular and disk-shaped, not spherical in the least. The ancient Hebrews pretty obviously held the Earth to be a disk - otherwise we can't have the devil showing Jesus "all the kingdoms of the world" from a mountain, or God "above" and looking down on (presumably) all the grasshopper-like people on the circle of the Earth. How do you sit "above" a sphere, exactly, when that sphere is big enough to have its own noticeable gravity?

This message is a reply to:
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