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Author Topic:   Should we be De-Evolving?
TheClashFan
Inactive Member


Message 16 of 59 (161313)
11-18-2004 11:00 PM
Reply to: Message 1 by gman
11-08-2004 1:54 PM


I think that Humans have been Devolving since Adam and Eve left the Garden of Eden. I mean look at us? Animals are better people than humans are. Animals don't rape or murder without reason, they don't eat more than they need, they don't kill for sport, they aren't homosexual, etc. The earlier offspring of Adam and Eve would be embarrassed to call us relitives.

Better to be silent and thought a fool than to open your mouth and prove it.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1 by gman, posted 11-08-2004 1:54 PM gman has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 17 by crashfrog, posted 11-18-2004 11:07 PM TheClashFan has replied
 Message 18 by AdminAsgara, posted 11-18-2004 11:12 PM TheClashFan has not replied

  
crashfrog
Member (Idle past 1467 days)
Posts: 19762
From: Silver Spring, MD
Joined: 03-20-2003


Message 17 of 59 (161318)
11-18-2004 11:07 PM
Reply to: Message 16 by TheClashFan
11-18-2004 11:00 PM


Amazing misundertandings about the animal world
Animals don't rape or murder without reason
Yeah they do. Rape is commonplace in the animal world; some species more than others. Infanticide is common, too.
they don't eat more than they need
Almost every animal will eat what is made avaliable to it. Obese pets are common. Wild animals don't tend to be fat because fat animals tend to get chased down and killed.
they aren't homosexual, etc.
We've observed hmosexuality in hundreds of different animal species. There's a pair of gay penguin parents in the San Diego zoo; two males who mate with each other and are raising a chick from an abandoned egg.
Welcome to EvC, congratulations on your first post.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 16 by TheClashFan, posted 11-18-2004 11:00 PM TheClashFan has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 20 by TheClashFan, posted 11-18-2004 11:21 PM crashfrog has replied

  
AdminAsgara
Administrator (Idle past 2303 days)
Posts: 2073
From: The Universe
Joined: 10-11-2003


Message 18 of 59 (161321)
11-18-2004 11:12 PM
Reply to: Message 16 by TheClashFan
11-18-2004 11:00 PM


Ahhh ninth grade and you love good music....how refreshing
Welcome to the fray.
Some links you may find helpful include our Forum Guidelines and Assistance w/ Forum Formatting and Style Guides for EvC

AdminAsgara
Queen of the Universe


http://asgarasworld.bravepages.com
http://perditionsgate.bravepages.com

This message is a reply to:
 Message 16 by TheClashFan, posted 11-18-2004 11:00 PM TheClashFan has not replied

  
crashfrog
Member (Idle past 1467 days)
Posts: 19762
From: Silver Spring, MD
Joined: 03-20-2003


Message 19 of 59 (161322)
11-18-2004 11:15 PM
Reply to: Message 14 by Loudmouth
11-09-2004 3:35 PM


Just to clarify
Actually, it is 4-50 MUTATIONS per generation, not 4-50 new genes. Most of these mutations will not affect the offspring since most will be neutral mutations occuring in junk DNA, duplicated genes, introns, or in the third base of a codon.
"Synonymous substitutions" was the term I used, and the figure was for mammalian nuclear DNA, from my wife's textbook on molecular phylogenetics. I believe it was about 3.5 per billion base pairs.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 14 by Loudmouth, posted 11-09-2004 3:35 PM Loudmouth has not replied

  
TheClashFan
Inactive Member


Message 20 of 59 (161327)
11-18-2004 11:21 PM
Reply to: Message 17 by crashfrog
11-18-2004 11:07 PM


Re: Amazing misundertandings about the animal world
"Almost every animal will eat what is made avaliable to it. Obese pets are common. Wild animals don't tend to be fat because fat animals tend to get chased down and killed."
House pets have almost no natural instincts. In the wild, they eat all they need when they can, but they don't just sit around eating for no reason like humans.
"Yeah they do. Rape is commonplace in the animal world; some species more than others. Infanticide is common, too."
The 'rape' is not intended in the human way. Humans rape for power, animals do it to reproduce. Infanticide is not used without reason in the wild. Generally, survival of the group is more important, but some species do kill the offspring of another.
"We've observed hmosexuality in hundreds of different animal species. There's a pair of gay penguin parents in the San Diego zoo; two males who mate with each other and are raising a chick from an abandoned egg."
I have never heard that before, but it's probley because they are in captivity. Does one perhaps have a genetic defect? Perhaps female genes and male genetalia?
Age and wisdom are not synonamous. You can have one without the other so don't dismiss me as an ignorant 14 year old, please.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 17 by crashfrog, posted 11-18-2004 11:07 PM crashfrog has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 21 by crashfrog, posted 11-18-2004 11:48 PM TheClashFan has replied

  
crashfrog
Member (Idle past 1467 days)
Posts: 19762
From: Silver Spring, MD
Joined: 03-20-2003


Message 21 of 59 (161338)
11-18-2004 11:48 PM
Reply to: Message 20 by TheClashFan
11-18-2004 11:21 PM


Re: Amazing misundertandings about the animal world
House pets have almost no natural instincts
That's simply not true. House pets have exactly the same instincts as wild animals. They don't, however, have the same trained behavior.
In the wild, they eat all they need when they can, but they don't just sit around eating for no reason like humans.
Animals in the wild will eat all that is avaliable to them. It's a survival trait, because an organism never knows if it's ever going to eat again. Humans have the same exact instinct - we eat more, way more, when more is put in front of us.
The 'rape' is not intended in the human way.
I meant it as "sexual activity against the consent of the victim." That's the same meaning in humans as in animals.
I have never heard that before, but it's probley because they are in captivity.
It's been seen in the wild, too, among certain primates.
Does one perhaps have a genetic defect? Perhaps female genes and male genetalia?
Oh, right. Because the only reason an organism might be gay is because they're a female trapped in a male's body.
Grow up. What an immature sexual attitude.
You can have one without the other so don't dismiss me as an ignorant 14 year old, please.
I had no idea how old you were until this very moment, when you just told me. I'm not correcting you because you're young. I'm correcting you because you're wrong. The only reason I would dismiss you as ignorant would be because you are ignorant. There's no shame in ignorance. But there is much to be ashamed of if one is too proud or confident to listen to those who are trying to rectify one's ignorance.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 20 by TheClashFan, posted 11-18-2004 11:21 PM TheClashFan has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 22 by TheClashFan, posted 11-18-2004 11:56 PM crashfrog has replied

  
TheClashFan
Inactive Member


Message 22 of 59 (161341)
11-18-2004 11:56 PM
Reply to: Message 21 by crashfrog
11-18-2004 11:48 PM


Re: Amazing misundertandings about the animal world
Forgive me, but I said that the animals may be homosexual because of genetic defects because it is in my belief that homosexuality is wrong, and it clearly states in the Bible that it is. I have no objection to homosexuals as people, I'm friends with a few, but it is wrong to my belief.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 21 by crashfrog, posted 11-18-2004 11:48 PM crashfrog has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 23 by NosyNed, posted 11-19-2004 12:04 AM TheClashFan has replied
 Message 28 by crashfrog, posted 11-19-2004 3:28 PM TheClashFan has replied

  
NosyNed
Member
Posts: 8996
From: Canada
Joined: 04-04-2003


Message 23 of 59 (161346)
11-19-2004 12:04 AM
Reply to: Message 22 by TheClashFan
11-18-2004 11:56 PM


Animals homosexuality
It doesn't matter why animals are sometimes homosexual. The point is you said they aren't.
The fact is they sometimes are.
All of your ideas about what animals are turn out to be wrong. Wisdom and age may very well not correlate well. However, in general, there is some correlation between knowledge and age. Unfortunately not always but most learn things as time goes by.
It is impossible for anyone to know it all. It certainly is impossible for anyone to learn everything in the first couple of decades of their life. There is, as noted, no shame in ignorance; we all are in many,many areas.
You have now had an opportunity to learn. Your understandings of the natural world are not all correct.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 22 by TheClashFan, posted 11-18-2004 11:56 PM TheClashFan has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 24 by TheClashFan, posted 11-19-2004 12:21 AM NosyNed has not replied
 Message 25 by TheClashFan, posted 11-19-2004 12:21 AM NosyNed has not replied
 Message 26 by TheClashFan, posted 11-19-2004 12:22 AM NosyNed has not replied

  
TheClashFan
Inactive Member


Message 24 of 59 (161356)
11-19-2004 12:21 AM
Reply to: Message 23 by NosyNed
11-19-2004 12:04 AM


Re: Animals homosexuality
Thank you for the mental stimulation none the less. I irratate my teachers the way I have probley just irratated you all, lol. I forget that religion and sciene rarely mixes. Anyway, I still think that homosexuality is wrong, and that when animals show homosexual behaviors, its a fluke that can be explained otherwise. But again, thank you for listening to my ranting. Mum says its time for bed, so I must depart from further conversation.

Better to be silent and thought a fool than to open your mouth and prove it.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 23 by NosyNed, posted 11-19-2004 12:04 AM NosyNed has not replied

  
TheClashFan
Inactive Member


Message 25 of 59 (161357)
11-19-2004 12:21 AM
Reply to: Message 23 by NosyNed
11-19-2004 12:04 AM


Re: Animals homosexuality
Thank you for the mental stimulation none the less. I irratate my teachers the way I have probley just irratated you all, lol. I forget that religion and sciene rarely mixes. Anyway, I still think that homosexuality is wrong, and that when animals show homosexual behaviors, its a fluke that can be explained otherwise. But again, thank you for listening to my ranting. Mum says its time for bed, so I must depart from further conversation. I think I conradicted my own signature.

Better to be silent and thought a fool than to open your mouth and prove it.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 23 by NosyNed, posted 11-19-2004 12:04 AM NosyNed has not replied

  
TheClashFan
Inactive Member


Message 26 of 59 (161358)
11-19-2004 12:22 AM
Reply to: Message 23 by NosyNed
11-19-2004 12:04 AM


How are you supposed to delete these?
This message has been edited by TheClashFan, 11-20-2004 12:04 AM

Better to be silent and thought a fool than to open your mouth and prove it.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 23 by NosyNed, posted 11-19-2004 12:04 AM NosyNed has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 27 by jar, posted 11-19-2004 12:29 AM TheClashFan has not replied

  
jar
Member (Idle past 394 days)
Posts: 34026
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004


Message 27 of 59 (161362)
11-19-2004 12:29 AM
Reply to: Message 26 by TheClashFan
11-19-2004 12:22 AM


Re: Animals homosexuality
Come back often and keep asking questions. You're lucky, there is still lots for you to learn and you seem to be working towards just that.
We'll look forward to your return very soon.

Aslan is not a Tame Lion

This message is a reply to:
 Message 26 by TheClashFan, posted 11-19-2004 12:22 AM TheClashFan has not replied

  
crashfrog
Member (Idle past 1467 days)
Posts: 19762
From: Silver Spring, MD
Joined: 03-20-2003


Message 28 of 59 (161536)
11-19-2004 3:28 PM
Reply to: Message 22 by TheClashFan
11-18-2004 11:56 PM


I have no objection to homosexuals as people, I'm friends with a few, but it is wrong to my belief.
And that's fine, I guess.
But it kind of weakens your central thesis, doesn't it? That humans are definately devolving because we do worse things than animals do? I mean, I'm pretty much proven that not only do animals do the same things we do, they do them for most of the same reasons we do.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 22 by TheClashFan, posted 11-18-2004 11:56 PM TheClashFan has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 34 by TheClashFan, posted 11-19-2004 9:01 PM crashfrog has replied

  
coffee_addict
Member (Idle past 477 days)
Posts: 3645
From: Indianapolis, IN
Joined: 03-29-2004


Message 29 of 59 (161545)
11-19-2004 4:21 PM


Hey admins, permission to direct and challenge our new member regarding the homosexuality issue.
TheClashFan writes:
I said that the animals may be homosexual because of genetic defects because it is in my belief that homosexuality is wrong, and it clearly states in the Bible that it is.
I'm not going to pursue this issue any longer if you don't want me to. Just let me know!

Hate world.
Revenge soon!

Replies to this message:
 Message 32 by AdminAsgara, posted 11-19-2004 6:35 PM coffee_addict has replied

  
SoulSlay
Member (Idle past 5611 days)
Posts: 44
From: billy's puddle, BC
Joined: 10-26-2004


Message 30 of 59 (161571)
11-19-2004 5:52 PM


I think that humans in the western society are definitaly devolving physically. Whenever a man with horrible eyesight is allowed to reproduce, the eyesight of the genetic pool takes a tiny step down. Whenever a person who is only alive because of modern medecine and antibiotics reproduces, the level of immunity of the genetic pool takes a step down. Over time, people are becoming less physically strong and fit. Back in the caveman days, if you had poor eyesight, chances are you would die because you can't hunt well if you can't see anything. Modern society and modern science has made it possible for physically unfit people to live and reproduce, causing the fitness of humans to decrease. Think about this: I believe that if god made humans directly,(basic 7 day creation story, which i dont believe, but bear with me) he would have made us gentically perfect (which is why it was ok that eveyone was doing it with their cousins for the first few generations...) then humans can only devovle because we started out perfect(god meant for us to live forever, i assume we started out with a perfect immune system and such). Now i understand that it is an organism's environment that dictates whether a mutation will be positive or negative, and in the modern world physical prowess is not required, so my first examples of eyesight and immunity aren't very good today, but think, without modern science and medicine nearly everybody alive today would be dead.

Replies to this message:
 Message 31 by AdminNosy, posted 11-19-2004 6:00 PM SoulSlay has not replied

  
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