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Author Topic:   Where Did Big Bang Energy Come From?
Antihero
Inactive Member


Message 1 of 84 (181267)
01-28-2005 3:59 AM


Hi guys , im kinda new and everything.

Anyways i had a question and i am totally open to anything so throw them my way. How did energy it self come about, before the big bang, im kinda confussed . If its too lengthy to explain whats a good refrence.

thanks your new friend,
The dude

This message has been edited by AdminNosy, 01-29-2005 15:05 AM


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AdminJar
Inactive Member


Message 2 of 84 (181444)
01-28-2005 5:20 PM


Thread moved here from the Proposed New Topics forum.
  
Lammy
Member
Posts: 3610
From: Chicago
Joined: 03-29-2004


Message 3 of 84 (181446)
01-28-2005 5:33 PM
Reply to: Message 1 by Antihero
01-28-2005 3:59 AM


Antihero writes:

did energy it self come about, before the big bang, im kinda confussed .


I'll tell you this much. Anyone who ever claims to have the answer is full of it.


People, please look at the Style Guide for EvC thread by Sylas. Pay particular attention to step 3.
This message is a reply to:
 Message 1 by Antihero, posted 01-28-2005 3:59 AM Antihero has not yet responded

    
daaaaaBEAR
Inactive Member


Message 4 of 84 (181539)
01-29-2005 1:31 AM
Reply to: Message 1 by Antihero
01-28-2005 3:59 AM


....

This message has been edited by daaaaaBEAR, 02-21-2005 00:51 AM


This message is a reply to:
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arachnophilia
Member (Idle past 151 days)
Posts: 9069
From: god's waiting room
Joined: 05-21-2004


Message 5 of 84 (181548)
01-29-2005 2:05 AM
Reply to: Message 4 by daaaaaBEAR
01-29-2005 1:31 AM


here's a bit of trivia you may not be aware of.

that argument is OLD. how old exactly is it?

darwin's evolutionary model was actually response to that very argument. seriously, here's theologian william paley in 1802:

quote:
From: "Natural Theology -- or Evidences of the Existence and Attributes of the Deity Collected from the Appearances of Nature," 1802

But suppose I had found a watch upon the ground, and it should be inquired how the watch happened to be in that place; I should hardly think of the answer which I had before given, that for anything I knew, the watch might have always been there. [] The watch must have had a maker: that there must have existed, at some time, and at some place or other, and artificer or artificers, who formed it for the purpose we find it actually to answer; who comprehended its construction, and designed its use


darwin published "the origin of species" FIFTY SEVEN YEARS after that. in fact, darwin wasn't even born until 1809. in other words, it's older than darwin.

i suggest you read darwin's repsonse to it, as well as dawkins "the blind watchmaker" and then evaluate this 200 year old argument again.


This message is a reply to:
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crashfrog
Inactive Member


Message 6 of 84 (181552)
01-29-2005 2:10 AM
Reply to: Message 4 by daaaaaBEAR
01-29-2005 1:31 AM


and that's just watch, look at human beings.

But we know that watches are intelligently designed because they aren't complex enough to have evolved. You're just thinking about it backwards.


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berberry
Inactive Member


Message 7 of 84 (181554)
01-29-2005 2:13 AM
Reply to: Message 4 by daaaaaBEAR
01-29-2005 1:31 AM


Paley's watch redux
daaaaaBEAR writes:

quote:
and that's just watch, look at human beings.

You've given a variation on Paley's analogy between a creator of the universe and a creator of a watch (or watchmaker). The flaw in the argument is that we cannot define the purpose of the universe but we can define the purpose of the watch.

For the analogy to hold, God would have had to have some useful purpose for creating the universe, or to take your example a human being. What possible purpose can there be if he's God? He doesn't need a tool for anything, all he has to do is wish things and they are so.

In other words, the watchmaker needed a watch - or at the very least he saw a need for a watch and set out to satisfy that need. Not so with God and the universe, or God and the human being.


Keep America Safe AND Free!
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berberry
Inactive Member


Message 8 of 84 (181568)
01-29-2005 2:37 AM
Reply to: Message 1 by Antihero
01-28-2005 3:59 AM


Jes chillin'
Antihero writes:

quote:
Hi guys , im kinda new and everything.

Hi, Antihero, I'm kinda old and stuff.


Keep America Safe AND Free!
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Brad
Member (Idle past 2961 days)
Posts: 143
From: Portland OR, USA
Joined: 01-26-2004


Message 9 of 84 (181576)
01-29-2005 3:30 AM
Reply to: Message 4 by daaaaaBEAR
01-29-2005 1:31 AM


OW! You hurt my brain.
Seriously, I didnt think the creationists were even using this argument anymore. A book you might want to check out is called The Blind Watchmaker. It goes through step by step and explains how wonderful and complex life is; but it also explains why there is no evidence for God having any hand in it at all. For the analogy to hold, lets define watch as a small organic, reproducing organism with no purpose other then to further its own species. The question of where the watch came from is no more. Old, old, old argument.
Brad
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Antihero
Inactive Member


Message 10 of 84 (181579)
01-29-2005 3:47 AM
Reply to: Message 9 by Brad
01-29-2005 3:30 AM


Re: OW! You hurt my brain.
"Hi, Antihero, I'm kinda old and stuff."
berberry ,lol.

Thanks For the input guys, i'll check the books out first chance i get.
=)


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berberry
Inactive Member


Message 11 of 84 (181583)
01-29-2005 4:03 AM
Reply to: Message 10 by Antihero
01-29-2005 3:47 AM


Re: OW! You hurt my brain.
Hi again. I was just teasing you. Welcome to EvC!


Keep America Safe AND Free!
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JonF
Member
Posts: 4900
Joined: 06-23-2003
Member Rating: 3.1


Message 12 of 84 (181625)
01-29-2005 8:58 AM
Reply to: Message 9 by Brad
01-29-2005 3:30 AM


ID is just Paley
Boy, this thread got of-topic fast, didn't it!

Seriously, I didnt think the creationists were even using this argument anymore.

Sure they are, except they've dressed it up in fancy clothes and some psuedotechnical gobbledygook, and they call it ID.


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JonF
Member
Posts: 4900
Joined: 06-23-2003
Member Rating: 3.1


Message 13 of 84 (181627)
01-29-2005 9:07 AM
Reply to: Message 1 by Antihero
01-28-2005 3:59 AM


Sorry nobody's tried to answer your question ... daaaaaBEAR shouldn't have posted what he did, it was totally counterproductive.

Nodoby really knows. There are some hypotheses. It's pretty likely that "energy before the big bang" is meaningless.

It's possible that the entire Universe just popped into being from nothing, in what's called a "quantum fluctuation". There are lots of other hypotheses.

Some interesting references to read are 121 FAQs about Big Bang Cosmology (The Astronomy Cafe) and Ned Wright's Cosmology Tutorial.


This message is a reply to:
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AdminNosy
Administrator
Posts: 4754
From: Vancouver, BC, Canada
Joined: 11-11-2003


Message 14 of 84 (181647)
01-29-2005 11:01 AM
Reply to: Message 1 by Antihero
01-28-2005 3:59 AM


Better Title
Would it be ok to change the title to something a bit more indicative to the topic?

Something like: "Where Did Big Bang Energy Come From? " or anything you'd like to suggest.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 1 by Antihero, posted 01-28-2005 3:59 AM Antihero has responded

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Antihero
Inactive Member


Message 15 of 84 (181675)
01-29-2005 2:21 PM
Reply to: Message 14 by AdminNosy
01-29-2005 11:01 AM


Re: Better Title
"Where Did Big Bang Energy Come From?"
Yeah sounds good to me =) . Sorry about that , i am usually better at that.
This message is a reply to:
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