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Understanding through Discussion


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Author Topic:   GRAVITY PROBLEMS -- off topic from {Falsifying a young Universe}
madeofstarstuff
Member (Idle past 5948 days)
Posts: 47
Joined: 08-12-2005


Message 165 of 205 (262670)
11-23-2005 10:53 AM
Reply to: Message 164 by cavediver
11-02-2005 2:15 PM


Understanding
I really enjoy peaking in on your (cavediver and SonGoku's) conversations and I hate to intrude here but I am overcome with wonderment. I read a lot of pop science books on these topics and am always left feeling a little empty on any true understanding on the topics discussed. You have always said that a lot is lost in the translation and perhaps it sometimes does a little more damage than good in these books to laymanize these topics, but I just want a little guidance to point me in the right direction to having a proper mathematical understanding.
I am still young, 28, but am in school and almost done with a Bachelor's and work full time. My area of study isn't related to these topics but is in engineering so I have some mathematical background. My mentioning of my age has more to do with the fact that I feel I have time to try to teach these things to myself given the proper direction and free time once I am done with my degree. It isn't practical for me to change my major to physics as I have already looked into it and it doesn't make financial sense for a person with a family considering how far behind in the game I would already be.
It seems to me that you feel that without proper schooling, knowledge about space and time in regards to general relativity is basically overwhelmingly esoteric. I have up to differential equations but not including linear algebra as my formal education in mathematics. I have also had two calculus based intro physics courses that basically went up to special relativity. My question is whether or not I (obviously you don't know me or my potential, this is just generally speaking) have the capability of taking time myself to learn these ideas mathematically and where I should start.
Anyone can get textbooks and you have mentioned "Gravitation" before, but all of the books I have seen in my schools library on relativity seem to be further along than I am. I haven't found a copy of Gravitation that I can look through (would like to before forking out all that dough, mostly for shipping ) does it start at the ground floor, or is there another recommended starting point for me like linear algebra, or some other mathematics that explain Riemannian/Minkowski/Lorentzian/etc. concepts and the like? I realize that it takes really smart people like yourself years to even intially understand these ideas, let alone a decade or so to be totally fluent in them. Am I doomed to failure and frustration trying myself or do I stand an outside chance at success?
Thanks for any input you can give. I will not have to ask silly layman questions anymore if I am pushed in the right direction.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 164 by cavediver, posted 11-02-2005 2:15 PM cavediver has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 166 by Son Goku, posted 11-24-2005 1:26 PM madeofstarstuff has not replied
 Message 167 by cavediver, posted 11-26-2005 7:56 AM madeofstarstuff has replied

  
madeofstarstuff
Member (Idle past 5948 days)
Posts: 47
Joined: 08-12-2005


Message 174 of 205 (263984)
11-29-2005 1:13 AM
Reply to: Message 173 by cavediver
11-26-2005 11:19 AM


Re: Understanding
I really appreciate the guidance and refreshing reassurance you two have given me here. I will try it and use the texts you mention in tandem to try to understand these ideas mathematically. How far off after that is it to having such a commanding perception and interpretation of these things as you two have?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 173 by cavediver, posted 11-26-2005 11:19 AM cavediver has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 175 by Son Goku, posted 11-29-2005 5:17 AM madeofstarstuff has replied

  
madeofstarstuff
Member (Idle past 5948 days)
Posts: 47
Joined: 08-12-2005


Message 176 of 205 (264055)
11-29-2005 9:03 AM
Reply to: Message 175 by Son Goku
11-29-2005 5:17 AM


Re: Understanding
How exciting, I really appreciate your help, thanks.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 175 by Son Goku, posted 11-29-2005 5:17 AM Son Goku has not replied

  
madeofstarstuff
Member (Idle past 5948 days)
Posts: 47
Joined: 08-12-2005


Message 177 of 205 (273741)
12-29-2005 2:22 AM
Reply to: Message 167 by cavediver
11-26-2005 7:56 AM


Re: Understanding
I received both of the books you two mentioned, Schutz and D'Inverno, and have begun with D'Inverno because it goes over special relativity again. I certainly have not had the detailed explanations of the Lorentz Transformations and such before. I am trying to finish understanding the second chapter right now, not too bad so far. A little stuck on the k-factor, but I think I will get it eventually. Thanks again for the tips guys!

This message is a reply to:
 Message 167 by cavediver, posted 11-26-2005 7:56 AM cavediver has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 178 by cavediver, posted 12-29-2005 1:20 PM madeofstarstuff has replied
 Message 180 by Son Goku, posted 12-29-2005 5:27 PM madeofstarstuff has not replied

  
madeofstarstuff
Member (Idle past 5948 days)
Posts: 47
Joined: 08-12-2005


Message 183 of 205 (274175)
12-30-2005 11:19 AM
Reply to: Message 178 by cavediver
12-29-2005 1:20 PM


Thanks
Cavediver:
if you want to really understand this stuff, do not let a sentence or equation go by without understanding it
That is my method so far, I have derived all of the equations myself from the given assumptions regarding both the composition law of velocities and the Lorentz Transformations. Its easier to recall the specifics of a situation if you can derive it yourself from reasoning alone rather than just memorization.
when that understanding starts to dawn, you'll appreciate why relativists don't waste money on LSD
Thats what intrigues me most about it, it seems the sky is the limit after a good understanding of this material. A lifetime of constant developments and insights into how the universe goes about presenting itself to us.
Thanks again both of you.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 178 by cavediver, posted 12-29-2005 1:20 PM cavediver has not replied

  
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