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Author Topic:   Big bang and Gases
Primordial Egg
Inactive Member


Message 31 of 59 (22714)
11-14-2002 12:11 PM
Reply to: Message 27 by Lemming
11-14-2002 11:42 AM


quote:
Originally posted by Lemming:
playing dumb and avioding or to ignore something that was perfectly Logical is totally stupid wonder if those scientists studying some of these things do what you have just done because it seems like it

[This message has been edited by Lemming, 11-14-2002]


Sadly Lemming I still don't follow your logic. Are you saying God gave Joz some cookies? We can test that.

------------------
It's good to have an open mind, but not so open that your brains
fall out. - Bertrand Russell


This message is a reply to:
 Message 27 by Lemming, posted 11-14-2002 11:42 AM Lemming has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 34 by Lemming, posted 11-14-2002 12:38 PM Primordial Egg has responded
 Message 45 by joz, posted 11-14-2002 4:38 PM Primordial Egg has not yet responded

  
Percy
Member
Posts: 19408
From: New Hampshire
Joined: 12-23-2000
Member Rating: 2.7


Message 32 of 59 (22715)
11-14-2002 12:11 PM
Reply to: Message 30 by John
11-14-2002 11:46 AM


Hollywood has their Oscars, maybe we should have our Brads. Only with Brad's okay, of course.

"And now, for best post creating Gordian Knots of obfuscation using grammatical expressions that violate the 2nd Law of Thermodynamics, the award goes to..."

--Percy


This message is a reply to:
 Message 30 by John, posted 11-14-2002 11:46 AM John has not yet responded

  
Lemming
Inactive Member


Message 33 of 59 (22720)
11-14-2002 12:36 PM
Reply to: Message 30 by John
11-14-2002 11:46 AM


John only take part in this discussion if you have something to say you are confused in you own problem i simple added something to your sums and gave a logical meaning to them if you fail to see that then why are you taking part on this forum to understand and learn correct?????????? then pay attention and answer the question or atleast give a answer of some degree or mention a fact that i might have over looked to help me learn too

This message is a reply to:
 Message 30 by John, posted 11-14-2002 11:46 AM John has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 36 by John, posted 11-14-2002 12:51 PM Lemming has responded
 Message 37 by Percy, posted 11-14-2002 2:20 PM Lemming has responded

  
Lemming
Inactive Member


Message 34 of 59 (22721)
11-14-2002 12:38 PM
Reply to: Message 31 by Primordial Egg
11-14-2002 12:11 PM


no i'm saying there was something there before the BB

This message is a reply to:
 Message 31 by Primordial Egg, posted 11-14-2002 12:11 PM Primordial Egg has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 35 by Primordial Egg, posted 11-14-2002 12:43 PM Lemming has responded

  
Primordial Egg
Inactive Member


Message 35 of 59 (22722)
11-14-2002 12:43 PM
Reply to: Message 34 by Lemming
11-14-2002 12:38 PM


quote:
Originally posted by Lemming:
no i'm saying there was something there before the BB

Hi Lemming,

Not unrelated, but why do you think clocks run slightly slower in fast moving aeroplanes?

------------------
It's good to have an open mind, but not so open that your brains
fall out. - Bertrand Russell


This message is a reply to:
 Message 34 by Lemming, posted 11-14-2002 12:38 PM Lemming has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 48 by Lemming, posted 11-14-2002 4:50 PM Primordial Egg has not yet responded

  
John
Inactive Member


Message 36 of 59 (22723)
11-14-2002 12:51 PM
Reply to: Message 33 by Lemming
11-14-2002 12:36 PM


quote:
Originally posted by Lemming:
John only take part in this discussion if you have something to say

Doesn't really seem to stop you....

quote:
you are confused in you own problem

Actually your freakish grammar is not my problem.

quote:
i simple added something to your sums and gave a logical meaning to them

Which makes sense only to you...

quote:
if you fail to see that then why are you taking part on this forum to understand and learn correct??????????

Right... if I don't understand your logic I have no right to be here. Suppose what you pass for logic really DOESN'T make sense?

quote:
then pay attention and answer the question or atleast give a answer of some degree or mention a fact that i might have over looked to help me learn too

I can't even make out your point. I think you'll find that others here share that difficulty. Note: When others cannot understand you, clarify your statements.

------------------
www.hells-handmaiden.com

[This message has been edited by John, 11-14-2002]


This message is a reply to:
 Message 33 by Lemming, posted 11-14-2002 12:36 PM Lemming has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 39 by Lemming, posted 11-14-2002 2:47 PM John has not yet responded

  
Percy
Member
Posts: 19408
From: New Hampshire
Joined: 12-23-2000
Member Rating: 2.7


Message 37 of 59 (22732)
11-14-2002 2:20 PM
Reply to: Message 33 by Lemming
11-14-2002 12:36 PM


Hi Lemming,

Lemming writes:
John only take part in this discussion if you have something to say you are confused in you own problem i simple added something to your sums and gave a logical meaning to them if you fail to see that then why are you taking part on this forum to understand and learn correct?????????? then pay attention and answer the question or atleast give a answer of some degree or mention a fact that i might have over looked to help me learn too

I have to confess that, like John, I had trouble deciphering this. Here's my attempt to translate:

John, only take part in this discussion if you have something to say. If you are confused that's your problem. I simply added something to your sums and gave a logical meaning to them. If you fail to see that then why are you taking part on this forum? You're here to understand and learn, correct? Then pay attention and answer the question, or at least give an answer of some degree, or mention a fact that I might have over looked to help me learn, too.

If this is right, or at least close, then it sounds like you feel you've explained things clearly but that John isn't being constructive in his responses. I guess I'd agree, in part, with you both. Your posts are very difficult to understand, and John isn't doing much to help you.

--Percy


This message is a reply to:
 Message 33 by Lemming, posted 11-14-2002 12:36 PM Lemming has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 38 by Lemming, posted 11-14-2002 2:43 PM Percy has not yet responded

  
Lemming
Inactive Member


Message 38 of 59 (22735)
11-14-2002 2:43 PM
Reply to: Message 37 by Percy
11-14-2002 2:20 PM


Thank You, all i am trying to do is bring all the issues together to make a logical answer to the theory behind the big bang,

it is my problem if someone is having trouble reading my posts, but telling me they don't understand the question when i know now they really don't make out what i am typing is not helping me,
so if you unsure about my posts please tell me its not what i have wrote its how i have wrote it just pick out the points you don't understand and i will try a correct them

if 1 person has managed to work out what i am saying then you all could possibly do the same


This message is a reply to:
 Message 37 by Percy, posted 11-14-2002 2:20 PM Percy has not yet responded

  
Lemming
Inactive Member


Message 39 of 59 (22737)
11-14-2002 2:47 PM
Reply to: Message 36 by John
11-14-2002 12:51 PM


well John its not hard to work out how to get - 1 is it,
You borrow something off someone and loose it, This is the same as borrowing a cookie and eating it, it means you are - 1 cookie in debt to someone now see if my theory with the cookies makes sence better still change the cookies to Atoms

This message is a reply to:
 Message 36 by John, posted 11-14-2002 12:51 PM John has not yet responded

  
Lemming
Inactive Member


Message 40 of 59 (22739)
11-14-2002 2:53 PM
Reply to: Message 21 by Karl
11-14-2002 11:18 AM


You got to look at every issue right Karl ?

What makes you think BB singularity doesn't obeys the same mathematical and physical laws as cookies?


This message is a reply to:
 Message 21 by Karl, posted 11-14-2002 11:18 AM Karl has not yet responded

  
Lemming
Inactive Member


Message 41 of 59 (22742)
11-14-2002 3:08 PM


Try understanding this

john had borrowed a cookie and ate it, or did something to it to make in disappear. This gives him 0 cookies. But he had to give it back to the person who borrowed it him giving john -1 cookies correct

I had 1 cookie which i gave john, meaning he has 1 cookie and plus i gave it him, meaning he doesn't have to give me it back. But because john borrowed a cookie he has now got to give that back,

Joz was in exsistence before i gave John my cookie, without my knowledge

The reason for joz's pressence is that john borrowed his first cookie off joz,When John recieved the cookie i (Lemming) gave him he had 1 cookie,but then gave it to joz because he had to replace the one he had eaten,Now this gives John 0 Cookies

what if the same logic could happen with Atoms. Atoms can have a negative value for short periods of time, Could they take away energy from a atom with the value of 1, And make atoms with the value of 0 which you have reason to believe exsist

That means you have got to look at the exsistence of something else to make what you are trying to say logical

now should you be looking at exsistence before the big bang ?

[This message has been edited by Lemming, 11-14-2002]


Replies to this message:
 Message 42 by Percy, posted 11-14-2002 3:42 PM Lemming has not yet responded
 Message 43 by John, posted 11-14-2002 3:50 PM Lemming has responded

  
Percy
Member
Posts: 19408
From: New Hampshire
Joined: 12-23-2000
Member Rating: 2.7


Message 42 of 59 (22746)
11-14-2002 3:42 PM
Reply to: Message 41 by Lemming
11-14-2002 3:08 PM


Lemming writes:
what if the same logic could happen with Atoms. Atoms can have a negative value for short periods of time, Could they take away energy from a atom with the value of 1, And make atoms with the value of 0 which you have reason to believe exsist

If this refers to the big bang then please see Message 29. There were no atoms in existence at the time of the Big Bang.

--Percy


This message is a reply to:
 Message 41 by Lemming, posted 11-14-2002 3:08 PM Lemming has not yet responded

  
John
Inactive Member


Message 43 of 59 (22749)
11-14-2002 3:50 PM
Reply to: Message 41 by Lemming
11-14-2002 3:08 PM


quote:
Originally posted by Lemming:
john had borrowed a cookie and ate it, or did something to it to make in disappear. This gives him 0 cookies. But he had to give it back to the person who borrowed it him giving john -1 cookies correct

hmmm.... John with no cookies. John with one cookie, after having borrowed a cookie. Now here you have a cookie just disappear. Why? You may as well just start at 0 and have John give away a cookie leaving him at -1. In fact, this starting point would be closer to accurate. In your cookie analogies you are starting off with a lot of assumptions about existence --- people, cookies, whatever. Maybe I am starting to see your problem. Really, you need to drop the cookie analogy.

Try this. (simplified)

Imagine a one planet universe. The mass of that planet equals 1. Now tied to that mass is a gravitational field equal to -1. This is a consequence of e=mc²-- the equivalency of mass and energy. You have a planet-- a something, a universe. But the entire sum of its parts is zero. See, we are not really trading cookies back and forth.

The reason we can't tell you what happened at ground zero is that our system of mathematics does not work when one divides by zero. This doesn't mean that it doesn't happen. At singularities, it seems to be exactly what happens.

------------------
www.hells-handmaiden.com


This message is a reply to:
 Message 41 by Lemming, posted 11-14-2002 3:08 PM Lemming has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 44 by Lemming, posted 11-14-2002 4:37 PM John has not yet responded

  
Lemming
Inactive Member


Message 44 of 59 (22767)
11-14-2002 4:37 PM
Reply to: Message 43 by John
11-14-2002 3:50 PM


ahh so now we are looking at a possible exsistence (time,space) before and up to the point of the BB ? and of course after, if the BB happened ?

hmmm but there still there is no proven facts that the BB happened ?
could you in lighten me on this ?


This message is a reply to:
 Message 43 by John, posted 11-14-2002 3:50 PM John has not yet responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 47 by joz, posted 11-14-2002 4:41 PM Lemming has not yet responded

  
joz
Inactive Member


Message 45 of 59 (22768)
11-14-2002 4:38 PM
Reply to: Message 31 by Primordial Egg
11-14-2002 12:11 PM


quote:
Originally posted by Primordial Egg:
Sadly Lemming I still don't follow your logic. Are you saying God gave Joz some cookies? We can test that.

But if I`m the one who starts out with all the cookies wouldn`t that make me.....

Oh no, what a terrible position for an atheist to be in....

Ok you lot get down on your knees and start singing my praises for I am Joz, god of cookies.......


This message is a reply to:
 Message 31 by Primordial Egg, posted 11-14-2002 12:11 PM Primordial Egg has not yet responded

  
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