Cosmology 101

Speaking of a fine tuned for life universe, have a look at this:"If the universe came with any old rag-bag of laws, life would almost certainly be ruled out. Indeed, changing the existing laws by even a scintilla could have lethal consequences. For example, if protons were 0.1 per cent heavier than neutrons, rather than the other way about, all the protons coughed out of the big bang would soon have decayed into neutrons. Without protons and their crucial electric charge, atoms could not exist and chemistry would be impossible.Physicists and cosmologists know many such examples of uncanny bio-friendly "coincidences" and fortuitous fine-tuned properties in the laws of physics. Like Baby Bear's porridge in the story of Goldilocks, our universe seems "just right" for life. It looks, to use astronomer Fred Hoyle's dramatic description, as if "a super-intellect has been monkeying with physics"."Full story on:New Scientist | Science news and science articles from New ScientistIt's obvoius that for all this fine tuning to take place, we either must have:1. A draw of a million universes, each with its set of laws, most of which would not support life, and a draw that we have won(being here) or
2. Some super intelligence fine tuned all the physical laws and the properties of the universe so that life is possible.Edited by Agobot, : No reason given.

Another new scientist article shows how this may be true but wrong. It is possible to construct universes with pretty large changes to the laws and still get a life supporting universe.What we don't know is:
How many combinations are possible.
How many of those are life supporting and how many are not.In other words the whole argument is spurious since it pretends to suggest an answer for which we have none of the inputs.

Could you reference a link that states that life is possible even if the laws of the universe were different?
Wouldn't this mean there is life on the Moon, on Mars, Venus and Pluto? Because we know with great certainity this is not the case. If life is so adaptible and undemanding, why don't we find evidence for it within our Solar system? Edited by Agobot, : No reason given.Edited by Agobot, : No reason given.Edited by Agobot, : No reason given.

You can't determine anything from a single data point except for that the single datapoint exists.

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I'm trying to see things your way, but I can't put my head that far up my ass.

True, however i want to see their point of view in full details and what evidence, if any, there is to support this claim that life is possible under different values for the fundamental forces.

Maybe you should actually be reading this thread. Look a page back. Message 54

It works both ways. You can't say either way whether it's possible or not possible. All you can do is have thought experiments.

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I'm trying to see things your way, but I can't put my head that far up my ass.

Taz, Agobot gave two explanations for the begining.

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And as I pointed out earlier, you can't do jack shit with a single data point. It is fallacious for creos to use the "finely tuned" condition argument and it certainly is fallacious for him to use it as well.

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I'm trying to see things your way, but I can't put my head that far up my ass.

Taz, we have no other data stream and there is no evidence for there to be any other one.

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Which is why we can't conlcude that the only good explanation is goddidit.

CS,which does not change that we only have 1 data stream of information.

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Duh!

bumpEdited by Force, : bump

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Who said that? Are you implying that those words are mine? I am sure you are aware that would be an outright lie...