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Author Topic:   Purple dosn't beleve in relativity
PaulK
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Posts: 17827
Joined: 01-10-2003
Member Rating: 2.3


Message 7 of 114 (165877)
12-07-2004 10:44 AM
Reply to: Message 6 by PurpleYouko
12-07-2004 10:38 AM


Re: Relativity! Fact or fiction? you choose
I've studied Special Relativity although it was quite a long time ago.
The fundamental problem with your post is that Special Relativity only applies in inertial reference frames (i.e. with no acceleration) - it's "Special" because it deals with that "special case".
So your version of the "twins paradox" runs into trouble because acceleration is involved. John accelerates to 0.6c on the way out and decelerates to match velocities with Hunter.

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 Message 6 by PurpleYouko, posted 12-07-2004 10:38 AM PurpleYouko has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 8 by PurpleYouko, posted 12-07-2004 10:49 AM PaulK has not replied
 Message 11 by PurpleYouko, posted 12-07-2004 11:11 AM PaulK has replied

  
PaulK
Member
Posts: 17827
Joined: 01-10-2003
Member Rating: 2.3


Message 13 of 114 (165890)
12-07-2004 11:33 AM
Reply to: Message 11 by PurpleYouko
12-07-2004 11:11 AM


Re: Relativity! Fact or fiction? you choose
Just as Newtonian mechanics is an adequate approximation for Special Relativity when speeds are low enough then surely Special Relativity can be an adequate approximation for General Relativity if the accelerations are low enough.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 11 by PurpleYouko, posted 12-07-2004 11:11 AM PurpleYouko has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 14 by PurpleYouko, posted 12-07-2004 12:23 PM PaulK has replied

  
PaulK
Member
Posts: 17827
Joined: 01-10-2003
Member Rating: 2.3


Message 15 of 114 (165902)
12-07-2004 12:30 PM
Reply to: Message 14 by PurpleYouko
12-07-2004 12:23 PM


Re: Relativity! Fact or fiction? you choose
Sorry, but Newtonian mechanics is still taught in schools. A sufficiently good approximation is fine - even if it isn't entirely correct. And there's nothing I know of that says that a good approximation is unscientific (indeed without infinite accuracy on measurements we can't know that any quantitative theory is anything more than an approximation).

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 Message 14 by PurpleYouko, posted 12-07-2004 12:23 PM PurpleYouko has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 17 by PurpleYouko, posted 12-07-2004 1:22 PM PaulK has replied

  
PaulK
Member
Posts: 17827
Joined: 01-10-2003
Member Rating: 2.3


Message 20 of 114 (165915)
12-07-2004 1:31 PM
Reply to: Message 17 by PurpleYouko
12-07-2004 1:22 PM


Re: Relativity! Fact or fiction? you choose
Newtonian mechanics can only work EXACTLY if all objects are stationary relative to each other. If there is ANY relative movement at all Special Relativity gives more accurate results.
The REASON Newtonian mechanics works is because it is a very close approximation unless the relative speed is an appreciable fraction of c.
I'm sorry but if you don't get that then I'm afraid that you have no business trying to critique General Relativity.

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 Message 17 by PurpleYouko, posted 12-07-2004 1:22 PM PurpleYouko has replied

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 Message 21 by PurpleYouko, posted 12-07-2004 1:43 PM PaulK has replied

  
PaulK
Member
Posts: 17827
Joined: 01-10-2003
Member Rating: 2.3


Message 22 of 114 (165919)
12-07-2004 1:56 PM
Reply to: Message 21 by PurpleYouko
12-07-2004 1:43 PM


Re: Relativity! Fact or fiction? you choose
What I'm saying is that if you don't realise the limits of sciences ability to test theories - and if as a result you make unreasonable demands for "proof" of theories you disagree with you are wasting everyones time.
And Newtonian mechanics isn't completely wrong - far from it. It's every bit as good as we need for most applications on Earth. Thats why it is still taught - very few people will go into particle physics or astrophysics where they need Relativity. Special Relativity is even more accurate and General Relativity is better still.

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 Message 21 by PurpleYouko, posted 12-07-2004 1:43 PM PurpleYouko has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 24 by PurpleYouko, posted 12-07-2004 2:07 PM PaulK has replied

  
PaulK
Member
Posts: 17827
Joined: 01-10-2003
Member Rating: 2.3


Message 26 of 114 (165930)
12-07-2004 2:24 PM
Reply to: Message 24 by PurpleYouko
12-07-2004 2:07 PM


Re: Relativity! Fact or fiction? you choose
Ever heard of the Heisenberg Uncertainty Principle ?
The more accurately you know a particle's position the less accurately you can know its momentum. And vice versa.
And then theres the problem that we can' measure anything with infinite precision. So even if there were an exact theory which described everything we could never know if we had it or not.
And this tangent isn't a waste of your time - you should be learnimg from it. It just would have been better if you actually had found out about it for yourself.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 24 by PurpleYouko, posted 12-07-2004 2:07 PM PurpleYouko has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 29 by PurpleYouko, posted 12-07-2004 2:28 PM PaulK has not replied

  
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