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Author Topic:   How do creationists explain stars?
ReverendDG
Member (Idle past 4111 days)
Posts: 1119
From: Topeka,kansas
Joined: 06-06-2005


Message 55 of 297 (321002)
06-13-2006 1:13 AM
Reply to: Message 54 by JerryReno
06-13-2006 12:45 AM


Re: On Grins
snt it amazing how some look at the stars and see him, while others mock or ignore him..?
you are making the leap that athiests know he's real somewhere deep inside and just are ignoring him or mocking him. When in reality they don't believe yehwah among a million other gods exist.
how do you mock something that doesn't exist?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 54 by JerryReno, posted 06-13-2006 12:45 AM JerryReno has not replied

ReverendDG
Member (Idle past 4111 days)
Posts: 1119
From: Topeka,kansas
Joined: 06-06-2005


Message 57 of 297 (321012)
06-13-2006 2:07 AM
Reply to: Message 56 by Rob
06-13-2006 1:22 AM


Re: RE Age of Stars
I believe it was perfect and after the fall of man, the whole thing has just been continually falling apart in some degree or another. I know this is not a new concept. 2nd law of thermodynamics and all...
hey rob go READ the second law sometime, it only works in closed systems, with no energy entering the system, the universe is not a closed system, this might work if we didn't have the sun hitting us
In a perfect system, it would only take one part to become out of harmony with the whole, to manifest an end to perfection. We think in terms of better than, or worse than. I suspect that in the absolute reality that I believe is our destiny if God has His way, there is only what is good (perfect), and anything less is evil.
oh come on if you are going to claim a literal reading of the bible please don't interprete the word good, god said the world was good not perfect - the universe has never been perfect just good and works.
evil is part of this world, god created evil, he even says it
The only possible discrepancy that I wonder about, is that assuming the Biblical view, Lucifer and His angels had been cast to the earth. So, I don't know that it could have been a perfect system at that point.
so how did a star get cast into the earth? you do know lucifer is mistranslation in the kjv? and the fall of satan isn't really bibical its just an inference from those mistranslations
But even then the sly old Serpent was there, so... I haven't figured it all out. That is why I said, it was perfect to some degree or design, but all the pieces are not there.
it was a snake not satan, and god never calls it perfect
Perhaps we were designed for perfection and the creation was designed for perfection, but it was necessary to be patient for the final scene of the play. In that way, we could have a choice, and evil would prove God's goodness. Wish/wash Santa claus! It's surely not worth fighting over...
how about some evidence? chapter, verse where the universe is ever called perfect or that we were designed perfect
I reccomend a book called 'The Evolution of a Creationist' by Dr. Jobe Martin. He is not the type who will impress the strictly critical sceptic. But he unravels some intriguing puzzles on the early earth at least potentially. One that caught my eye (and there were several like this), is that Teredactyls (I know I spelled that wrong) would have been able to fly in the preflood atmosphere of earth (higher pressure and density). They could not have in our current atmosphere. Also, the water vapor canopy hinted at in Genesis, would have protected us in numerous ways, not the least of which is radiation. And in that environment, and assuming we were created to live eternally, when death entered the picture, it would not be unreasonable to 'consider' that men could have lived up to hundreds of years.
the best thing would be to go read about flying reptiles by people who study them instead of reading unfounded speculation, i think there would be some sort of effect on the earth if the gravity changed
by the way wheres the evidence for the vapor canopy? the verse talks about the clouds and the sky its a phoetic way of saying it rained really hard!
Also, when Noah exited the ark in the lower pressure atmosphere, his normal consumption of wine would have more easily intoxicated him.
evidence of any of this?
Now, none of these things is essential in the manner that many scientists insist on in their own worldviews. The modern evolutionist is as dogmatic and fundamental about scientific beliefs that historically are shown to be thrown out as new evidence comes in, as any fanatic has ever displayed. For the Christian, it is better to not place your hat on speculation but be satisfied that many questions remain unanswered. If the Bible was demonstrably false in correctly showing the earths History, I don't think there would be a debate. It's not like some of the other fantastic tales from that same era where the earth is described as riding on the back of a huge tortoise.
i guess thats where science differs from faith and belief, science is based on something we can verifiy and observe, your stuff is nothing but unfounded speculation and ad hoc after ad hoc. all the rest of the quote is implying that science is based on guesses, do you have any evidence or is this just most assuptions about something you don't really know much about?
the funny thing is the bible has be falsified! by christians no less! go read some history and educate yourself about science and the last 200 years
It's not like some of the other fantastic tales from that same era where the earth is described as riding on the back of a huge tortoise.
i love this, you have no clue about myths do you?, genesis is exactly like this, the sky is a giant piece of metal! oh yes we know your story is true.. only because you think its true, the others are all false because you don't think they are true
In the final analysis, faith is not blind at all, but quite revealing...
no faith isn't blind, but many believers seem to be
I look at it this way. If God exists and I require full disclosure before I will accept what evidence does fit together as per Genesis, then I am insisting that I have God's knowledge before I will accept God and His claimed word.
see the thing is, the bible is a book, whether or not the bible is true has no bearing on whether god exists or not, the bible is not god nor has any hold over god - so you can believe in god using the bible as a spiritual guide,or not but the bible is not 100% fact
If that is the case, then I can't even believe that I exist, because I surely do not have full disclosure as to who I am or where here is. In that sense, I think the reason life is such a mystery, is that life is of God, and we are of the world. He cannot give us the kind of knowledge we were intended to have until He can make us perfect. And as Lewis said so bluntly, 'death is part of that process.'
god has never once said he wants us perfect he wants us to lead a good life and if you believe in jesus and whats said in the NT, to love god and love your neighbor as yourself - nothing more, nothing less.
if you only put stock in the bible instead of bothering to use your brain and heart i tihnk god, may well be wondering what you are doing
As Robert Jastrow (agnostic, and former director of the Hubble observatory) said, 'If we go back in time, things reach a point of infinite density and temperature. That implys a beginning and that has a strong theological flavor to it.'
this is a belief, he can believe what he wants
Was there a beginning? Yes! Whether it was fully formed and is falling apart, or there was a big bang and it is still being formed I don't know... but it doesn't matter because in this life I never will.
i agree but i believe in some being starting the big bang, a god of some sort a demiurge at the worst, i mean we have objects flowing from somewhere, why not a big bang
I do know this, it is meant to be wholly formed, and that is where it is going with us, or without us. God has ordained it, and commands that we be perfect. With His help, we can overcome our finitude and gain power that is only given to those who can handle it. The instructions for use are found in the Spirit of God. Not to mention the patience to endure the wait.
verse and chapter?, any sort of evidence that anything you have said is in the bible?
Come Lord jesus, come quickly!
oh i just realized this is nothing but a preach session on why we should believe in your god instead of say the FSM, not really all that convincing - nor did you even answer the topic, so i'm going with you have no clue about stars
Edited by ReverendDG, : No reason given.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 56 by Rob, posted 06-13-2006 1:22 AM Rob has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 58 by crashfrog, posted 06-13-2006 8:06 AM ReverendDG has replied
 Message 59 by Rob, posted 06-13-2006 10:46 AM ReverendDG has replied

ReverendDG
Member (Idle past 4111 days)
Posts: 1119
From: Topeka,kansas
Joined: 06-06-2005


Message 86 of 297 (321418)
06-14-2006 11:06 AM
Reply to: Message 58 by crashfrog
06-13-2006 8:06 AM


Re: RE Age of Stars
Wouldn't the universe be the only closed system? What energy, in your view, enters or leaves the universe?
that depends on if you subscribe to a multiverse outlook or not

This message is a reply to:
 Message 58 by crashfrog, posted 06-13-2006 8:06 AM crashfrog has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 95 by Rob, posted 06-15-2006 2:19 AM ReverendDG has replied

ReverendDG
Member (Idle past 4111 days)
Posts: 1119
From: Topeka,kansas
Joined: 06-06-2005


Message 87 of 297 (321438)
06-14-2006 11:50 AM
Reply to: Message 59 by Rob
06-13-2006 10:46 AM


Re: RE Age of Stars
You guys really need to relax. I thought I did a great job of explaining that this whole exercise is just speculation. Even so, you get so offended. Truth is relative remember? What's wrong with my truth? You have yours right?
relax about what? misinformation is a zero-tolerance thing for me
whos offended? i'm not i'm just tired of the same things recapped. true isn't relative sorry its eather true or false
I'm dissapointed I have to addresss some of these things. Really sloppy on your part.
i'm sorry you have to post again..
sorry but the bible is not a science text no matter how much you wish it was, even if it sounds like it
Other scientifically accurate Bible quotes that preceed science, and that 'old science' argued with. NKJ Isaiah 40:22 It is He who sits above the circle of the earth..." It was people who said the earth was flat, Not the word of God.
sorry but the hebrew has a word for sphere if i remember correctly and the author didn't use it in 40:22, the hebrews had the same outlook as everyone else in the area, the best i could think of would be like a snow globe
NKJ, Job 26:7 "He stretches out the north over empty space; he hangs the earth upon nothing"
Now when you read that, please don't pretend that you know what gravity is and presume to argue the point
no i would argue that hebrews didn't think the earth moved, but the sun spun around it
To God, 'good' is perfect... NIV Mark 10:18 "Why do you call me good?" Jesus answered. "No one is good--except God alone.
NIV Luke 18:19
"Why do you call me good?" Jesus answered. "No one is good--except God alone.
so interpretation wins out, so you are arguing with god then? i would think that if god meant perfect he would say perfect not good
You're too cynical little goat boy, Christ is also portrayed as the morning star, and said Himself 'I am the light of the world'. 'I have come into the world as a light' etc. The terms star and light have a double meaning to confuse the proud and learned...
you need to go read what the verse was about, its about the king of tyre - he called himself son of the morningstar - he fell
The terms star and light have a double meaning to confuse the proud and learned...
of course!, didn't realize that god was loki now i know better!
nice so you use lines from people who tied the serpent to satan to make a point using mythology, sorry my cynical nature prevents me from taking lines from the bible serously with no context
those lines about pefection are about god and about how we should act, not about us being designed perfect, wheres the universe called perfect? still not convencing
Dr, Martin gives it in his book. It's totally testable, as are many of the things in Genesis. He documents his conclusions well. Check it out. I know your interested inexpanding your horizons in a relentless pursuit of the truth..
sorry but i'm not going to read a book to learn your argument, its your job not mine
I'm making it all up. I went back in time and changed the ancient texts...
go read some history
It's a damn conspiracy!
i hope you are joking, its very true just ask around
Say what???
well let me alter what i said, the hebrews thought the sky was a solid object that god "beat" like metal to put the stars and objects into place
What I believe has nothing to do with whether or not it is true. And the same goes for you. I am so glad you understand this point because some people have a hard time comprehending the fact that reality preceeds them. Reality is absolute!
reality is not absolute, have you ever talked to any pychotic people? they have a very different reality than you or i do - reality is relative to the person, what you mean is the universe is absolute
Whatever the truth turns out to be, it will be the whole truth and nothing but the truth. So this whole notion of diversity and the truth being relative is completely false. Thank you for proving that point on accident.
who said the truth is relative if you are talking about morals, then i still stand by the fact that yes the are relative and you haven't proven why they are not
You need to have your sight restored. If it is true... I think it has tremendous bearing on all of reality.
i wish he would then i would like to not wear glasses, everything is a blob without em, what if its false though?
But your statement is true and therefore absolute?
if we accept our reality as it is, i would never say anything is absolute, but i can say i agree with reality and not a book writen by people with no clue about anything
But Reverend, I have to admit... your God would be a lot less scary and would let me live anyway I want without compromise. Uconditonal love man...
i was just thinking about this, its amazing to me how easy christians can change god to fit thier motive when confronted by people saying god is about love and not heavy rules, but when people talk about how cruel god is, they say thats not my god! maybe we should change all the churchs into IHOPS, because of all the waffeling christians like to do
No, I'm making it all up... There is nothing in the Bible about Eternal life, Heaven, the new Heaven and Earth, or the patient endurance of the saints. You got me boss...
i think you are distorting what i said, and i'd wish you to not quotmine like that - plus theres not really A bible, but many and i guess thats besides the point
Oh yeah... how do creationists explain the stars???...
then explain the light distances

This message is a reply to:
 Message 59 by Rob, posted 06-13-2006 10:46 AM Rob has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 96 by Rob, posted 06-15-2006 2:27 AM ReverendDG has replied
 Message 115 by Rob, posted 06-24-2006 2:48 AM ReverendDG has not replied

ReverendDG
Member (Idle past 4111 days)
Posts: 1119
From: Topeka,kansas
Joined: 06-06-2005


Message 104 of 297 (322102)
06-16-2006 2:46 AM
Reply to: Message 96 by Rob
06-15-2006 2:27 AM


Re: RE Age of Stars
If what you said is true, then it is not true. I see the lie, because I see the contradiction...
i guess thats all you have then, calling me a lier?
its not a contradiction, preceptions of reality do not always reflect the universe.
heres a story about what i mean, i went to the doc to get some more prozac and theres this guy who was scizo who talked to me, he thought the doctors were giving drugs to him to kill him, now of course they were not, he thought it was, what i am getting at is reality is not static or absulute it varies from person to person
but the universe does not

This message is a reply to:
 Message 96 by Rob, posted 06-15-2006 2:27 AM Rob has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 107 by Rob, posted 06-16-2006 10:15 AM ReverendDG has not replied

ReverendDG
Member (Idle past 4111 days)
Posts: 1119
From: Topeka,kansas
Joined: 06-06-2005


Message 105 of 297 (322104)
06-16-2006 2:53 AM
Reply to: Message 95 by Rob
06-15-2006 2:19 AM


Re: RE Age of Stars
Ah yes.. String Theory. So, you move beyond physics to metaphysics, so that you can deny the metaphysical claim of theists?
Did you know that it takes a spirit to deny a spirit?
they need sarcasim blocks or something, anyway metaphysics isn't about the spiritual as far as i can tell
so you are saying that there has to be something to deny? i don't deny god, i deny the concept of god as written in all human books
god can exist for all i care, but none of the religions got it right

This message is a reply to:
 Message 95 by Rob, posted 06-15-2006 2:19 AM Rob has not replied

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