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Author Topic:   How do creationists explain stars?
tudwell
Member (Idle past 4144 days)
Posts: 172
From: KCMO
Joined: 08-20-2006


Message 256 of 297 (390783)
03-21-2007 9:37 PM
Reply to: Message 254 by zcoder
03-21-2007 9:10 PM


Honestly, zcoder. I don't know how you got the impression that any of what's been said is hateful and dishonest, let alone attacking you personally. Taz might have been a bit blunt about it, but what he and Ringo were trying to get you to do is post in a readable and understandable manner. They want to make communication easier, something you would probably be grateful for if you saw it for what it is.
This message is a reply to:
 Message 254 by zcoder, posted 03-21-2007 9:10 PM zcoder has not yet responded

  
Taz
Member (Idle past 1457 days)
Posts: 5069
From: Zerus
Joined: 07-18-2006


Message 257 of 297 (390805)
03-22-2007 12:46 AM
Reply to: Message 252 by zcoder
03-21-2007 8:38 PM


zcoder writes:

I have no degree in english nore in a true science.


I think very few of us here have a degree in English. I, myself, do not have a degree in English. That fact can be ascertained by looking at how I said "I, myself, do..." in the previous sentence.

In life, we communicate with each other with words, facial expressions, and the intensity of our voices. In fact, I often find myself having to use my hands a lot when I try to describe complicated concepts in layman's terms for people to understand.

What we are trying to point out to you is that on an online board like this where anybody can post his opinions, debate with other people, and express his (random) thoughts, the only way people can understand each other clearly is if everyone volunteers to not be so cryptic. We have only your words and the format you've chosen to express them in to interpret your what you want to say to us. Unfortunately, your posts so far are very hard for us to figure out. Not only that, whenever you respond to one of us, it really seems to me like you haven't read our words properly. In other words, you appear to be talking right past us.

I think you must think I am suppose to be a beauty queen?

On the contrary, I have often raise a voice of protest everytime I hear someone put down someone else because of his/her profession. I absolutely do not think there is nothing wrong with beauty queens. In fact, I often defend prostitutes when I hear my friends put them down.

I think what I'm trying to say in too many words is I really don't care what you do in life. It's what you claim that I care about. I find it hard to believe that an engineer and programmer veteran that you've claimed to be could have so many misconceptions in physics. Even most of my students that had trouble with basic kinematics did not have the misconceptions that you've shown us. Right now, I don't konw what to think. But it would help me, and others, greatly if you would stop taking offense at everything we say and try to see just how almost incomprehensible your posts appear to us.

also I am sure the posts I make bug you in my style and maybe my
content too as well. but I was not applying for a job either.
nore do I put any professional touch on forum posts as if I was
writting a book?

I'd hardly call a consistence in misspelling and run-ons a "style". It would bother me less if behind this style of yours you actually make some sense. But so far, it is this very style of yours that is contributing greatly to the incomprehensibleness (if that's a word) of your posts in general.

Again, this is an online debate forum. We can't see your face. We can't hear the tone of your voice. We can't see how you are expressing your hands. The only thing that is coming across from you to me are the words you decide to post on here and the style you've chosen to use.

However, if I have stumbled upon some sort of condition or that you are not a native born English speaker, I very much apologize.

also you can attack my spelling, grammar, and anything else you wish
to do, and I still will respect you.

I don't think I've actually intended to attack your spelling, grammar, or anything else except your ideas, which I admit to have bluntly used the phrase "give out a negative pressure differential" when describing them.

Look at it this way, this is a debate forum. Ideas are open to attack at anytime. My ideas are attacked all the time. I have found that the times I've been wrong far outnumber the times I've been right. I've also more often than not unintensionally missspel a few words heer and there.

Judge as you wish, but what nationality I am is not your concern.

For now, I will take this as an implication that you are not a native English speaker, and that is perfectly fine. We have people from all over the world here. For example, our very own long term member Brad McFall is from Lalaland and he often communicates with us in Jargon, a language most of us aren't familiar with. You should converse with him sometimes. :)
This message is a reply to:
 Message 252 by zcoder, posted 03-21-2007 8:38 PM zcoder has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 258 by zcoder, posted 03-22-2007 12:55 PM Taz has responded

zcoder
Member (Idle past 4374 days)
Posts: 66
Joined: 03-19-2007


Message 258 of 297 (390878)
03-22-2007 12:55 PM
Reply to: Message 257 by Taz
03-22-2007 12:46 AM



NOTE: You may not understand this post.

Since I will no long be visiting here, I will tell some about me.
I am French, I also have a handy cap, and my field in
no way ever included any sciences that you have described.

Hence I felt you treaded into my personal life to discredit me.
And if my assertion is wrong, then it still stands
that you can't comprehend what I say, out of all the
other public forums I frequent.

So it stands that only this forum can't understand me
which I find hard to swallow.

So what was I to think? Would I now feel good about making posts and joining in on debates now?

No, I would not, the ethical line on decency has been
crossed.

Zcoder....


This message is a reply to:
 Message 257 by Taz, posted 03-22-2007 12:46 AM Taz has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 259 by ringo, posted 03-22-2007 1:32 PM zcoder has not yet responded
 Message 260 by Taz, posted 03-22-2007 1:36 PM zcoder has responded

  
ringo
Member
Posts: 16637
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005
Member Rating: 2.9


Message 259 of 297 (390887)
03-22-2007 1:32 PM
Reply to: Message 258 by zcoder
03-22-2007 12:55 PM


zcoder writes:

... I also have a handy cap....

So do I.

I have to work very hard at making my posts. I spend much more time editing than I do writing them. But in the end, nobody complains that they can't understand what I'm trying to say.

Nobody here is criticizing you personally. This is by far the best forum I have ever encountered when it comes to people being willing to help you instead of just criticizing you.

We do have high standards here. We do expect you to take a lot of care with your posts. There are some very smart people here and you can learn a lot from them.

But you have to come here with the right attitude.

I, for one, made quite an effort to understand your posts. I didn't have to do that. In return, I got nothing but abuse.

And yet, I'd rather have you stay than go.

Stay. Take the chip off your shoulder and you'll be able to stand up straighter. Ask questions. Instead of telling people that they don't understand, try to improve your understanding.

Edit every post forty times. Use a spell-checker.

You know you want to stay or you wouldn't still be lurking. Don't let your ego get in the way of enjoying your time here.


Help scientific research in your spare time. No cost. No obligation.
Join the World Community Grid with Team EvC
This message is a reply to:
 Message 258 by zcoder, posted 03-22-2007 12:55 PM zcoder has not yet responded

Taz
Member (Idle past 1457 days)
Posts: 5069
From: Zerus
Joined: 07-18-2006


Message 260 of 297 (390888)
03-22-2007 1:36 PM
Reply to: Message 258 by zcoder
03-22-2007 12:55 PM


zcoder writes:

Hence I felt you treaded into my personal life to discredit me.


First of all, the only time I ever "treaded" into your personal life was when I asked what nationality you were and if you had any religious affiliation. The rest of your personal life stuff, like having at least a son, being an engineer and programmer, etc., you voluntarily gave them out.

But look at it this way. Why would I want to discredit you when you've only shown up for a few days? I hardly know anything about your philosophies and your beliefs. Heck, I don't even know if you support gay rights or not (and I usually judge people on that issue).

One possible explanation is that I'm just a nasty person and just wants to pick on any newbie that crosses my path. Another explanation is so far I have had only your posts to tell what's going on between our communications.

I am French, I also have a handy cap, and my field in
no way ever included any sciences that you have described.

Didn't I say twice already that I apologize if either of the cases was true?

And if my assertion is wrong, then it still stands
that you can't comprehend what I say, out of all the
other public forums I frequent.

Ok, I'll take your word for it. What I can tell you is that most of us don't care if you're English, French, Chinese, Afghan, or whatever. Every once in a while, I stumble into a Francais community and try to talk to them. Of course, not being a native French speaker, I stumble a lot, too, and I tell them that I'm just a French-wannabe American.

No, I would not, the ethical line on decency has been
crossed.

I'm sorry if you feel that way. But we frequently get new posters that have read a paragraph from their high school biology text book, come here and declare themselves biologists, and then start blowing out hot air (an American academic term for pure bullshit) hoping to impress the rest of us with the one word biology word they memorized.

We also frequently get new posters that are like 12 and type similar to how you type.

I'm sorry, but since you kept refusing to tell us you were non-English native speaker even when I asked you directly, I just assumed otherwise. Again, on an internet forum like this we don't have anything to on but your words.

Si vous décidez de retourner plus tard, je serai heureux à discuter ce qui vous voulez discuter.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 258 by zcoder, posted 03-22-2007 12:55 PM zcoder has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 261 by zcoder, posted 03-22-2007 8:21 PM Taz has not yet responded

zcoder
Member (Idle past 4374 days)
Posts: 66
Joined: 03-19-2007


Message 261 of 297 (390987)
03-22-2007 8:21 PM
Reply to: Message 260 by Taz
03-22-2007 1:36 PM


Tazmanian Devil,
I may take you up on your offer, I just don't know yet.
I will just be taking some time out first.
This message is a reply to:
 Message 260 by Taz, posted 03-22-2007 1:36 PM Taz has not yet responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 263 by b b, posted 03-26-2007 2:34 PM zcoder has not yet responded

  
b b
Member (Idle past 4297 days)
Posts: 77
From: baton rouge, La, usa
Joined: 09-25-2005


Message 262 of 297 (391568)
03-26-2007 1:28 AM
Reply to: Message 255 by kuresu
03-21-2007 9:36 PM


I am a creationist. The only explanation for stars I have come from Genesis.
14And God saith, `Let luminaries be in the expanse of the heavens, to make a separation between the day and the night, then they have been for signs, and for seasons, and for days and years.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 255 by kuresu, posted 03-21-2007 9:36 PM kuresu has not yet responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 267 by Coragyps, posted 03-29-2007 10:03 PM b b has not yet responded
 Message 272 by Reserve, posted 04-05-2007 7:49 PM b b has responded

b b
Member (Idle past 4297 days)
Posts: 77
From: baton rouge, La, usa
Joined: 09-25-2005


Message 263 of 297 (391621)
03-26-2007 2:34 PM
Reply to: Message 261 by zcoder
03-22-2007 8:21 PM


I understood you just fine. There are alot of a-holes here who worry more about how you say something than what you are actually saying. None of that stuff Taz talked about had anything to do with the subject. The appeal of this site is that everyone gets a chance to voice opinions regardless of religion, race, nationality, age, or anything else. If a 12 year old kid gets on here he/she might give Taz a challenge. Zcoder all Americans are not as illiterate as Taz and Ringo. I really enjoyed your posts and understood them.

Edited by b b, : I didn't say enough


This message is a reply to:
 Message 261 by zcoder, posted 03-22-2007 8:21 PM zcoder has not yet responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 264 by Taz, posted 03-27-2007 1:26 PM b b has not yet responded

Taz
Member (Idle past 1457 days)
Posts: 5069
From: Zerus
Joined: 07-18-2006


Message 264 of 297 (391800)
03-27-2007 1:26 PM
Reply to: Message 263 by b b
03-26-2007 2:34 PM


b_b writes:

Zcoder all Americans are not as illiterate as Taz and Ringo.


I wouldn't say we're completely illiterate. I don't know about Ringo, but I'd describe myself as only semi-illiterate.

If a 12 year old kid gets on here he/she might give Taz a challenge.

This I have no doubt of. During the short period when I was an elementary teacher's assistant many years ago, I discovered that the little buggers were a hand full. I had to resort to kicking and punching to get them in line.

The appeal of this site is that everyone gets a chance to voice opinions regardless of religion, race, nationality, age, or anything else.

Would "anything else" include my semi-illiteracy?

None of that stuff Taz talked about had anything to do with the subject.

Sure, it does. Let's look at it this way. What if I come in here and claim that I've been an engineer for many years and start to say that gravity comes from spinning? Any person who's taken basic kinematics in high school should know that spinning has nothing to do with gravity except when you're talking about space-time relativity stuff. Wouldn't you suspect something about my claim having been an engineer for many years? Now, what if I also make the claim that I've designed and run simulation programs of the universe and all that good stuff and at the same time still maintain that gravity comes from the spin of an object? Wouldn't you suspect some more that something is fishy?

Believe it or not, everything that you say no matter how off the wall it may be has something to do with the subject being discussed. One cannot claim to be a bible expert and then proceed to say Jesus was hanged to death. One cannot claim to be a biologist and then proceed to say that animal cells have cell wall. One cannot claim to be a philosopher and proceed to say socrates was a christian.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 263 by b b, posted 03-26-2007 2:34 PM b b has not yet responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 265 by zcoder, posted 03-29-2007 3:16 PM Taz has responded

zcoder
Member (Idle past 4374 days)
Posts: 66
Joined: 03-19-2007


Message 265 of 297 (392164)
03-29-2007 3:16 PM
Reply to: Message 264 by Taz
03-27-2007 1:26 PM


You must think that an electronics engineer is the same as a physics engineer, if that even exists.
In electronics I can only engineer or design circuits. and the closest thing to any form of physics
in electronics is the electron theory, and I will even go as far as to throw in OHMS LAW.

What I do know of the science and physics, is what Einstein says which is about time and space
and though I don't have a degree in physics I also admit that I may state my ideas with error's in the
terms I use, yet still does not make what I know wrong. after all I am a novice at physics. and I maybe just
saying it wrong and using the wrong terms.

I will also go as far as to say that if NASA gave me a job, they would not place me in afield with physics
when I am only an electronics engineer. I think that claim that a electronics engineer knows physics
is pure nonsense. and lends it's self as an uneducated guess.

I will also say that any attacks on me based on my field and on my spelling to be pure nonsense.
and I should not have to take personal attacks from anyone, Its is OK to debate and say that my
idea or belief is wrong and attack it, but to attack a person, is out of the lines of ethics because it has
nothing to do with the subject or debate, and moves more into the realm of personal attacks.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 264 by Taz, posted 03-27-2007 1:26 PM Taz has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 266 by Taz, posted 03-29-2007 9:08 PM zcoder has responded

  
Taz
Member (Idle past 1457 days)
Posts: 5069
From: Zerus
Joined: 07-18-2006


Message 266 of 297 (392216)
03-29-2007 9:08 PM
Reply to: Message 265 by zcoder
03-29-2007 3:16 PM


zcoder writes:

I will also say that any attacks on me based on my field and on my spelling to be pure nonsense.


I believe I said I apologized like 4 times. Here, let me put it in a language you could understand better.

if (your_native_language != english || you == language_condition) {

cout<< "I apologize";

}
This message is a reply to:
 Message 265 by zcoder, posted 03-29-2007 3:16 PM zcoder has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 268 by zcoder, posted 03-29-2007 10:22 PM Taz has responded

Coragyps
Member
Posts: 5391
From: Snyder, Texas, USA
Joined: 11-12-2002
Member Rating: 3.9


Message 267 of 297 (392227)
03-29-2007 10:03 PM
Reply to: Message 262 by b b
03-26-2007 1:28 AM


The only explanation for stars I have come from Genesis.

Don't you find that explanation rather startlingly useless here in the age of telescopes? We've been chemically analyzing stars for about 150 years now, and finding planets around them at the rate of two or three a month. You need a couple dozen stars for "signs and seasons," and we've now cataloged several million of 'em, only 6000 or so of which were even visible before 1610 when Galileo put a 'scope on the sky.

Do we need all hundred billion of the stars just in our own galaxy for "days and years?"


This message is a reply to:
 Message 262 by b b, posted 03-26-2007 1:28 AM b b has not yet responded

  
zcoder
Member (Idle past 4374 days)
Posts: 66
Joined: 03-19-2007


Message 268 of 297 (392233)
03-29-2007 10:22 PM
Reply to: Message 266 by Taz
03-29-2007 9:08 PM


...

while(your_a_ahole == TRUE)
{
if(you_understand == TRUE)
{
break;
}
}

I hope most of us will break out of that loop.

Zcoder....

Edited by zcoder, : fix typo


This message is a reply to:
 Message 266 by Taz, posted 03-29-2007 9:08 PM Taz has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 269 by Taz, posted 03-30-2007 12:33 AM zcoder has not yet responded
 Message 270 by AdminQuetzal, posted 03-31-2007 12:27 PM zcoder has not yet responded

  
Taz
Member (Idle past 1457 days)
Posts: 5069
From: Zerus
Joined: 07-18-2006


Message 269 of 297 (392255)
03-30-2007 12:33 AM
Reply to: Message 268 by zcoder
03-29-2007 10:22 PM


Re: ...

if(you_stick_around == TRUE) {
you = my_new_evc_best_friend;
while(my_attitude < nice) {
my_attitude++;
}
}

Edited by Tazmanian Devil, : No reason given.

Edited by Tazmanian Devil, : No reason given.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 268 by zcoder, posted 03-29-2007 10:22 PM zcoder has not yet responded

AdminQuetzal
Inactive Member


Message 270 of 297 (392443)
03-31-2007 12:27 PM
Reply to: Message 268 by zcoder
03-29-2007 10:22 PM


Re: ...
Z, if you run into a situation where you think you are being clear but no one seems to understand you, feel free to write your response in French. There are those of us on this forum who are able and willing to translate for you. Notez bien: I do not mean we will be willing to translate every post, but certainly some point you feel is important and isn't getting across. I understand language barriers (oh, boy, do I).

Please realize that this may delay your conversation - I/we may not see it right away. In addition, I personally will be unavailable and off-line for a week starting Monday as I have to go back to the Galapagos for work (although "have to" may not be the best terminology in this case :D ). If someone doesn't see your post, put a note in the Moderation Thread linked below.

Happy posting.


"Here come da Judge" - Flip Wilson

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    This message is a reply to:
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