EvC Forum: Problems with the Big Bang theory

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Topic: Problems with the Big Bang theory

ringo

Member (Idle past 439 days)

Posts: 20940

From: frozen wasteland

Joined: 03-23-2005

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Message 241 of 303 (369673)
12-13-2006 11:39 PM

Reply to: Message 238 by Rob
12-13-2006 11:22 PM

Re: Why it is irrelevant.

scottness writes:

Though BB is a conclusion based on evidence, it is an incomplete theory.

All theories are "incomplete" - that's the nature of the beast.

Your puzzle analogy presupposes a "correct" solution. A better analogy would be a jigsaw puzzle - even if a lot of pieces are missing, we can say, "Hey, that's a Big Bang." As long as we can be pretty sure that it is a Big Bang and not a horsey or a duckie, we have a pretty good theory.

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	Message 238 by Rob, posted 12-13-2006 11:22 PM		Rob has replied

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	Message 243 by Rob, posted 12-13-2006 11:49 PM		ringo has replied

ringo

Member (Idle past 439 days)

Posts: 20940

From: frozen wasteland

Joined: 03-23-2005

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Message 246 of 303 (369678)
12-14-2006 12:06 AM

Reply to: Message 243 by Rob
12-13-2006 11:49 PM

Re: Why it is irrelevant.

scottness writes:

We don't have the whole picture, and I try to tell everyone the missing pieces are found in Christ.

Scientifically, pieces that Christ has eaten and pieces that fell behind the couch don't count. We can only use the pieces we have, the pieces we can see.

So far, those pieces look like a Big Bang. Until you can get Christ to spit 'em out and until you sweep behind the couch, you can't pretend to know what the picture "should" look like.

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This message is a reply to:
	Message 243 by Rob, posted 12-13-2006 11:49 PM		Rob has replied

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	Message 257 by Rob, posted 12-15-2006 10:56 PM		ringo has replied

ringo

Member (Idle past 439 days)

Posts: 20940

From: frozen wasteland

Joined: 03-23-2005

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Message 264 of 303 (370131)
12-16-2006 12:59 AM

Reply to: Message 257 by Rob
12-15-2006 10:56 PM

Re: Why it is irrelevant.

scottness writes:

You are coming from the position that facts are the only thing that matters. Am I correct? Is that the essential scientific concept wrapped up in the clearest terms?

That would depend on the definition of "facts" - and I would dispute your definition to some degree (but that's not the topic).

Yet, I am expected to believe that we have the ability to look into the past and calculate the entire universe's position and attitude.

Not at all.

First, nobody cares what you "believe".

Second, you're still hung up on "correctness" and absolutes. Nobody claims that we have The Answer^TM about the universe's "position and attitude". What we have is the best possible explanation given the available data.

I think the belief in the Big bang and other naturalistic theories is motivated much more by individual meaning be it subconscious or not.

It's not a "belief" - it's a conclusion, based on the available facts. It is arrogant to think that you know other people's motivations.

... I stand firm on these points until persuaded otherwise.

Once again, nobody cares what you believe and nobody is trying to persuade you.

This is a science thread where only evidence matters. (And I probably shouldn't be wasting space trying to explain such fundamentals to you.)

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This message is a reply to:
	Message 257 by Rob, posted 12-15-2006 10:56 PM		Rob has replied

Replies to this message:
	Message 266 by Rob, posted 12-16-2006 1:07 AM		ringo has replied

ringo

Member (Idle past 439 days)

Posts: 20940

From: frozen wasteland

Joined: 03-23-2005

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Message 267 of 303 (370135)
12-16-2006 1:13 AM

Reply to: Message 266 by Rob
12-16-2006 1:07 AM

Re: Why it is irrelevant.

scottness writes:

Yeah, it's not like I'm human...

Well, don't project your own failings on everybody else.

Just a quick word about "facts": It's consensus (*ahem*) that reduces one's all-too-human arrogance. If others see the same "facts" as I do, they are more likely to be facts and not just mere beliefs.

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This message is a reply to:
	Message 266 by Rob, posted 12-16-2006 1:07 AM		Rob has replied

Replies to this message:
	Message 268 by Rob, posted 12-16-2006 1:16 AM		ringo has replied

ringo

Member (Idle past 439 days)

Posts: 20940

From: frozen wasteland

Joined: 03-23-2005

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Message 269 of 303 (370141)
12-16-2006 1:29 AM

Reply to: Message 268 by Rob
12-16-2006 1:16 AM

Re: Why it is irrelevant.

scottness writes:

Is that why the majority of people believe in a creator? I guess I'm in good company even if we are despised.

There is certainly no consensus among believers in a creator. Thinking that you are despised (or even noticed) is arrogant and off-topic.

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	Message 268 by Rob, posted 12-16-2006 1:16 AM		Rob has not replied

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