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Author Topic:   Can Nothing Exist?
Geno
Inactive Member


Message 5 of 59 (42778)
06-12-2003 6:56 PM
Reply to: Message 4 by stevo3890
06-12-2003 5:49 PM


Oh what the heck.
Well, I don't know where this is going, but if you are sincere in your pursuing open-minded interest I will pursue this thread.
I personally don't think there can exist complete nothingness. [earth shattering conclusion, I know]
I'd like to hear your response to that.
wr/Geno

This message is a reply to:
 Message 4 by stevo3890, posted 06-12-2003 5:49 PM stevo3890 has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 6 by stevo3890, posted 06-12-2003 7:44 PM Geno has replied

  
Geno
Inactive Member


Message 12 of 59 (42810)
06-12-2003 8:47 PM
Reply to: Message 9 by stevo3890
06-12-2003 8:20 PM


As to the undertones to cosmology the scientific study of the origin and structure of the universe. they are not really undertones this Universe is a largely a vacuum and many would argue that a vacuum has nothing in it. I however say that nothing cannot exist.
The operative word for me is "largely". Even if there is only a very tiny amount of something, it cannot be nothing. And, clearly, there is something [not nothing] in the universe.
To Creationism versus Evolution If one would argue that nothing existed before the universe, since nothing begets nothing i would say that in effect that person was aknowledging the need for a Creator.
I think this is better because it deals with universal causality, but I don't believe that this would be considered a "creationism versus evolution" question. If you want to discuss causality, I think this could still be useful...Admin?
wr/Geno

This message is a reply to:
 Message 9 by stevo3890, posted 06-12-2003 8:20 PM stevo3890 has not replied

  
Geno
Inactive Member


Message 19 of 59 (42895)
06-13-2003 4:58 PM
Reply to: Message 6 by stevo3890
06-12-2003 7:44 PM


Oh Crap
I can't believe this. I'm minding my own business, reading about Inflation Theory and I find this:
Start, Guth says, by imagining nothing, a pure vacuum. Be careful. Don't imagine outer space without matter in it. Imagine no space at all and no matter at all. Good luck.
To the average person it might seem obvious that nothing can happen in nothing. But to a quantum physicist, nothing is, in fact, something. Quantum theory holds that probability, not absolutes, rules any physical system. It is impossible, even in principle, to predict the behavior of any single atom; all physicists can do is predict the average properties of a large collection of atoms. Quantum theory also holds that a vacuum, like atoms, is subject to quantum uncertainties. This means that things can materialize out of the vacuum, although they tend to vanish back into it quickly. While this phenomenon has never been observed directly, measurements of the electron's magnetic strength strongly imply that it is real and happening in the vacuum of space even now.
Theoretically, anythinga dog, a house, a planetcan pop into existence by means of this quantum quirk, which physicists call a vacuum fluctuation. Probability, however, dictates that pairs of subatomic particlesone positive, one negative, so that conservation laws are not violatedare by far the most likely creations and that they will last extremely briefly, typically for only 10-21 second. The spontaneous, persistent creation of something even as large as a molecule is profoundly unlikely.
Nonetheless, in 1973 an assistant professor at Columbia University named Edward Tryon suggested that the entire universe might have come into existence this way...moreDiscover Financial Services
Sorry for the long quote, but here's the bottom line:
In the Inflationary Model, one of the best solutions comes from a false vacuum "popping into" existence.
This also is more than theory. Observations are consistent with the idea, and calculations totaling up all the matter and all the gravity in the observable universe indicate that the two values seem to precisely counterbalance. All matter plus all gravity equals zero. So the universe could come from nothing because it is, fundamentally, nothing.
On the basis of that I would like to modify my earlier position: I am now not sure at all that "nothing" cannot "exist", insofar as to preclude the possibility that the universe "something" came from "nothing".
wr
Geno

This message is a reply to:
 Message 6 by stevo3890, posted 06-12-2003 7:44 PM stevo3890 has not replied

  
Geno
Inactive Member


Message 34 of 59 (42949)
06-14-2003 11:30 PM
Reply to: Message 33 by crashfrog
06-14-2003 10:29 PM


Topics
About as bad as "Can aliens be Christians"...

This message is a reply to:
 Message 33 by crashfrog, posted 06-14-2003 10:29 PM crashfrog has not replied

  
Geno
Inactive Member


Message 44 of 59 (43065)
06-16-2003 7:17 PM
Reply to: Message 43 by Buzsaw
06-16-2003 7:12 PM


Stevo
Q. Where is Stevo?
A. Snickering his lurking butt off.
{EDITORAL COMMENT - This being the goofy topic it is, I'm not sure if the above is or isn't called for. Stevo last appeared in this topic on the evening of friday the 13th. Maybe he took the weekend off, and will be back this evening - Adminnemooseus (being or not being biased against someone who may or may not have a position in the evolution/creationism debate}
[This message has been edited by Adminnemooseus, 06-16-2003]
I will withdraw all charges if Stevo shows up!
[This message has been edited by Geno, 06-16-2003]

This message is a reply to:
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