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Author Topic:   universe- why is it here?
1.61803
Member (Idle past 774 days)
Posts: 2928
From: Lone Star State USA
Joined: 02-19-2004


Message 88 of 144 (136641)
08-24-2004 10:11 PM
Reply to: Message 87 by happy_atheist
08-24-2004 6:33 AM


Re: Causation and the universe
Saying the universe has no cause would assume you do not exist, and since you are reading this something 'caused' you. If something caused you then would it not be logical to think that something caused the universe as well. Whether that was a random quantum event or A devine creator. I realize there are those who contend the universe is just an extenstion of perpetual universes. Irrespective of human perspective, natural law dictates how reality plays out. Post T=0 is all humans will ever be able to fathom, beyond that is mere speculation and fantasy depending on whether you are atheist or religous. IMO. And by the way great thought provoking post.


"One is punished most for ones virtues" Fredrick Neitzche

This message is a reply to:
 Message 87 by happy_atheist, posted 08-24-2004 6:33 AM happy_atheist has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 89 by Darwin Storm, posted 08-24-2004 10:18 PM 1.61803 has replied
 Message 91 by Beercules, posted 08-25-2004 12:01 PM 1.61803 has replied
 Message 92 by happy_atheist, posted 08-25-2004 12:22 PM 1.61803 has taken no action

  
1.61803
Member (Idle past 774 days)
Posts: 2928
From: Lone Star State USA
Joined: 02-19-2004


Message 90 of 144 (136669)
08-24-2004 11:55 PM
Reply to: Message 89 by Darwin Storm
08-24-2004 10:18 PM


Re: Causation and the universe
DarwinsStorm writes:

we can't be sure...


Bingo daddyo.


"One is punished most for ones virtues" Fredrick Neitzche

This message is a reply to:
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1.61803
Member (Idle past 774 days)
Posts: 2928
From: Lone Star State USA
Joined: 02-19-2004


Message 93 of 144 (136795)
08-25-2004 1:34 PM
Reply to: Message 91 by Beercules
08-25-2004 12:01 PM


Re: Causation and the universe

beercules writes:

It is quite possible the whole casual chain begins there.

If that is the case then the Universe 'caused' the universe. Saying the universe has a cause seems to indicate a 'causer' which tends to get some atheist attention. It is my opinion that it is unknown. The big bang caused the universe yes or no? And if so how? If no one knows the how, then speculation is all we have to go on. My speculation is just as unfounded as the next speculator. I say I dont know the answer, but I do not say causality is illogical.


"One is punished most for ones virtues" Fredrick Neitzche

This message is a reply to:
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Replies to this message:
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1.61803
Member (Idle past 774 days)
Posts: 2928
From: Lone Star State USA
Joined: 02-19-2004


Message 95 of 144 (136869)
08-25-2004 9:17 PM
Reply to: Message 94 by happy_atheist
08-25-2004 6:11 PM


Re: Causation and the universe
HappyAtheist writes:

Is causation possible without a "before"?


I do not know. Human terms and comprehension of phenomenon that transends time throw even atheist into the realm that many theist fall into when trying to comprehend God. It is ineffible, humans have no words or descriptions that can explain that which transends the constructs of time and causality itself. Thats it in a nut shell, we just dont know. And anyone who claims to know is either a idiot, insane, or a liar or all three.


"One is punished most for ones virtues" Fredrick Neitzche

This message is a reply to:
 Message 94 by happy_atheist, posted 08-25-2004 6:11 PM happy_atheist has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 96 by happy_atheist, posted 08-26-2004 7:11 AM 1.61803 has replied

  
1.61803
Member (Idle past 774 days)
Posts: 2928
From: Lone Star State USA
Joined: 02-19-2004


Message 99 of 144 (137032)
08-26-2004 12:29 PM
Reply to: Message 96 by happy_atheist
08-26-2004 7:11 AM


Re: Causation and the universe
happyatheist writes:

(such as saying the big bang has a cause or the universe has a creator is wrong.

well that is your opinion of which you are entitled.
Happyathiest writes:

Well causation as we understand it requires a "before', therefore it would be silly to say the universe has a cause because it would going beyound human experience.

Ya silly, perhaps as silly as saying you could drop an anvil on your foot and it quantum tunnel through it and cause you no harm. Or perhaps a silly as saying there is a species of marine worm that the female harbors the males of the species inside they're own body. Or as silly as suggesting a photon could be both a wave and particle. Or as silly as Bells theorm, quantum entanglement. Life is stranger than fiction. But even Quentin Smith states the universe possibly CAUSED itself. I say I dont know, you are the one making extravagant claims of knowing the universe has no cause. Can you support this claim of yours? If not see my previous post last paragraph. *I included the link to give another point of view, it does not mean it is my point of view.

This message has been edited by 1.61803, 08-26-2004 11:43 AM


"One is punished most for ones virtues" Fredrick Neitzche

This message is a reply to:
 Message 96 by happy_atheist, posted 08-26-2004 7:11 AM happy_atheist has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 101 by happy_atheist, posted 08-26-2004 5:03 PM 1.61803 has replied

  
1.61803
Member (Idle past 774 days)
Posts: 2928
From: Lone Star State USA
Joined: 02-19-2004


Message 102 of 144 (137160)
08-26-2004 5:06 PM
Reply to: Message 101 by happy_atheist
08-26-2004 5:03 PM


Re: Causation and the universe
Ok.

This message is a reply to:
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