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Author Topic:   universe- why is it here?
Darwin Storm
Inactive Member


Message 84 of 144 (136128)
08-22-2004 2:49 PM
Reply to: Message 81 by happy_atheist
08-22-2004 10:26 AM


Re: Belles Inequality
I had this discussion with my college physics proffessor last sememster. According to him, (who has his PHD in particle physics), the basis of QM, the wavefunction, represents all we can know about a given defined system. That simply means that while there may or may not be something below that level, it is physically impossible (as far as we know, but most likely true) to determine anything beyond this level. So, while there may be underlying mechanics beneath this level, it is impossible to test, and therefore outside teh reach of science. In fact, there are several ideas out there to explain the mechanics, but none are testable, and therefore none are truly scientific explanantions.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 81 by happy_atheist, posted 08-22-2004 10:26 AM happy_atheist has taken no action

Replies to this message:
 Message 85 by sidelined, posted 08-22-2004 5:09 PM Darwin Storm has replied

  
Darwin Storm
Inactive Member


Message 86 of 144 (136146)
08-22-2004 5:56 PM
Reply to: Message 85 by sidelined
08-22-2004 5:09 PM


Re: Belles Inequality
That we do, there are still many avenues of physics that have yet to be explored. The article is interesting, but without notation of its source, or any linked experimental data, its nothing more than that. However, it still doesn't claim to explain the underlying reasons or provide a theory of QM. It just allows you to take other form of measurements. The real question, however, is if the experiments result in any more information than can be extracted from the wavefunction. If not, it still only provides a new tool to investigate. Another interesting avenue of research is decoherence, which is the event where the wavefunction collapses. The actual pehnomena occurs so quickly that at first it was though to be undetectable, but modern techniques have been to developed to examine this aspect of qm. In fact, certain moloecules that are normaly to large to exhibit QM effects have produced in a lab which are still bound by QM effect, but on a scale 1000's of times larger than is normally the bound for decoherace. Hopefully, we will be able to learn more about the acutal phenomena of collapsing wavefunction, which would be yet another piece of the puzzle.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 85 by sidelined, posted 08-22-2004 5:09 PM sidelined has replied

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Darwin Storm
Inactive Member


Message 89 of 144 (136642)
08-24-2004 10:18 PM
Reply to: Message 88 by 1.61803
08-24-2004 10:11 PM


Re: Causation and the universe
Well, cause and effect may well be a property inherent in the universe, like gravity and electromagnetism. However, when you talk about a singularity, or other possible events related to the big bang, we can't be sure that the current fine structure of the universe held at that point. Cause and effect, thermodynamics, ect might have had no meaning in the intial event.

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 Message 88 by 1.61803, posted 08-24-2004 10:11 PM 1.61803 has replied

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