Understanding through Discussion


Welcome! You are not logged in. [ Login ]
EvC Forum active members: 66 (9078 total)
760 online now:
Dredge, PaulK, Tangle, Tanypteryx, Taq (5 members, 755 visitors)
Newest Member: harveyspecter
Post Volume: Total: 895,098 Year: 6,210/6,534 Month: 403/650 Week: 173/278 Day: 13/28 Hour: 1/2


Thread  Details

Email This Thread
Newer Topic | Older Topic
  
Author Topic:   universe- why is it here?
General Nazort
Inactive Member


Message 69 of 144 (135290)
08-19-2004 3:01 PM
Reply to: Message 1 by tubi417
06-22-2004 1:18 PM


I'm not arguing for or against evolution but I don't understand why the universe could be here just because it's here. Doesn't it seem like there should be some type of higher intelligence to create the universe? It just doesn't seem right that all of space would be here just because it is.

Either the universe has existed eternally or something else that has existed eternally created the universe.

The big bang, which has been proven, suggests that the universe had a beginning. If it had a beginning, it could not have existed eternally.

There are numerous theories that seek to combine the big bang and an eternal universe, but none have been proven as of yet. So to the best of our current scientific knowldege, the universe began in the big bang. So the question is, who/what started the big bang? I believe that God did.

Some people in this thread have misused the idea of cause and effect. The law of cause and effect states, "every effect must have a cause."
It does not say "everything must have a cause, just every effect must a have a cause.

This answers the question, who created God? Since God is not an effect, he does not have to have a cause. He has always been.

As for the vast size of the universe, it shows the power of God and also the importance that he places on people. He thinks people are so important that he created this huge universe just for us.


If you say there are no absolutes, I ask you, are you absolutely sure about that?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1 by tubi417, posted 06-22-2004 1:18 PM tubi417 has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 70 by crashfrog, posted 08-19-2004 4:29 PM General Nazort has replied
 Message 71 by lfen, posted 08-19-2004 5:02 PM General Nazort has not replied
 Message 77 by Beercules, posted 08-20-2004 11:00 AM General Nazort has not replied

  
General Nazort
Inactive Member


Message 72 of 144 (135379)
08-19-2004 6:33 PM
Reply to: Message 70 by crashfrog
08-19-2004 4:29 PM


It's fairly easy to prove that this is not a fundamental property of the universe. Many things occur without having been caused.

Such as???? Just because there appears to be no cause doesn't mean there is no cause.

Cause and effect is true by definition

If something did not have a cause, then it is not an effect.

Just for homo sapiens???
I find that mind boggling. I understand being species centric but I wouldn't attribute that to the source of the universe.

Just sayin what the Bible says, Ifen
If we were created in the image of God, then one human is more important than the whole universe. Makes me feel special.

"For the LORD delights in you, And to Him your land will be married. For as a young man marries a virgin, So your sons will marry you; And as the bridegroom rejoices over the bride, So your God will rejoice over you."


Pray for mercy from... PUSS! In boots. (Don't forget the Spanish accent)

This message is a reply to:
 Message 70 by crashfrog, posted 08-19-2004 4:29 PM crashfrog has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 73 by crashfrog, posted 08-19-2004 6:53 PM General Nazort has replied
 Message 78 by lfen, posted 08-20-2004 2:04 PM General Nazort has not replied

  
General Nazort
Inactive Member


Message 74 of 144 (135508)
08-20-2004 12:42 AM
Reply to: Message 73 by crashfrog
08-19-2004 6:53 PM


Atomic decay, which happens at random along statistical distributions. Given one atom of an isotope there's literally no way to predict when it will decay, because nothing causes its decay. It just decays.

Examples of things that seem to happen for no reason at all, things acribed to "chance," are just where we do not have a full understanding of everything involved. Just as Aristotle (I think it was him) concluded that certain kinds of fishes came into existence by chance, because he did not know about the microcopic world, modern day scientists invoke "chance" when they don't have a full understanding of how nature works. An atom decays in a certain, predictable way, we are just not able to predict it yet.

I don't see how something can "just decay." The laws of physics contradict this. An object at rest stays at rest, unless acted on by an outside force... there has to be something acting on the atom to make it start to decay.

Ok, if you're drawing a distinction between things that happen and things that are effects, that's fine.

By what evidence, then, do you propose that the universe is an effect?

If the universe had a beginning, as the big bang suggests, then it is an effect, because something had to cause it to come into being.


Pray for mercy from... PUSS! In boots. (Don't forget the French accent!)

This message is a reply to:
 Message 73 by crashfrog, posted 08-19-2004 6:53 PM crashfrog has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 75 by NosyNed, posted 08-20-2004 2:41 AM General Nazort has not replied
 Message 76 by Morte, posted 08-20-2004 3:00 AM General Nazort has not replied
 Message 79 by crashfrog, posted 08-20-2004 7:20 PM General Nazort has not replied
 Message 80 by sidelined, posted 08-21-2004 3:57 AM General Nazort has not replied

  
Newer Topic | Older Topic
Jump to:


Copyright 2001-2018 by EvC Forum, All Rights Reserved

™ Version 4.1
Innovative software from Qwixotic © 2022