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Author Topic:   universe- why is it here?
Inactive Member

Message 10 of 144 (117688)
06-22-2004 10:28 PM

It's philosophy - metaphysics. I've never understood how someone can find the existence of the universe too arbitrary and then propose it was created by an equally abritrary being who exists without reason.
Doesn't it seem like there should be some type of higher intelligence to create the universe?

This is what I mean. Why is the uncaused existence of the universe less believable than the uncaused existence of some vauge, unobservable higher intelligence?

This message has been edited by Beercules, 06-22-2004 09:29 PM

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Message 77 of 144 (135630)
08-20-2004 11:00 AM
Reply to: Message 69 by General Nazort
08-19-2004 3:01 PM

Either the universe has existed eternally or something else that has existed eternally created the universe.

False dilemma. A universe of finite duration, yet uncaused is a possibility.

The big bang, which has been proven, suggests that the universe had a beginning. If it had a beginning, it could not have existed eternally.

First of all, scientific theories are never proven. See this introduction to the scientific method. While the statement you posted above is false, I doubt any scientists in the relevant fields would claim the standard big bang model can provide an accurate description of the universe prior to a certain point.

There are numerous theories that seek to combine the big bang and an eternal universe, but none have been proven as of yet. So to the best of our current scientific knowldege, the universe began in the big bang. So the question is, who/what started the big bang? I believe that God did.

Maybe it was Lucky the leprechaun?

Some people in this thread have misused the idea of cause and effect. The law of cause and effect states, "every effect must have a cause."
It does not say "everything must have a cause, just every effect must a have a cause.


Cause and effect is true by definition

If something did not have a cause, then it is not an effect.

You're playing word games here. The big bang is an event. There is no reason there must necessarily be any prior events to that. If that's the case, then by your definitions this event was not an effect at all. If the primordial event is not an effect, you have no argument.

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 Message 69 by General Nazort, posted 08-19-2004 3:01 PM General Nazort has taken no action

Inactive Member

Message 91 of 144 (136771)
08-25-2004 12:01 PM
Reply to: Message 88 by 1.61803
08-24-2004 10:11 PM

Re: Causation and the universe
Saying the universe has no cause would assume you do not exist, and since you are reading this something 'caused' you.

Doesn't follow. My reading this forum was caused by prior events. The current event has been caused by others, but that chain of events doesn't necessarily drag out into an infinite past. The big bang event, but it wasn't necessarily caused by any prior events. It is quite possible the whole casual chain begins there.
If something caused you then would it not be logical to think that something caused the universe as well.

Likewise, this doesn't follow.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 88 by 1.61803, posted 08-24-2004 10:11 PM 1.61803 has replied

Replies to this message:
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