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Author Topic:   universe- why is it here?
Tony650
Member (Idle past 3272 days)
Posts: 450
From: Australia
Joined: 01-30-2004


Message 136 of 144 (139450)
09-03-2004 1:50 AM
Reply to: Message 133 by sidelined
09-02-2004 8:31 AM


Hi sidelined.

I think I get what you're saying. One question, though; will this problem always be inherent in our equipment/techniques or is it something that could be eliminated as our equipment/techniques become more refined?

Based on my "understanding," I'm guessing that simply refining our current tools will be insufficient. It sounds more like one of those boundaries that, by its nature, simply can't be crossed.

Thanks for the link, too! I took a glance and it looks very promising! I'll be checking it out in more detail shortly.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 133 by sidelined, posted 09-02-2004 8:31 AM sidelined has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 141 by sidelined, posted 09-06-2004 11:03 AM Tony650 has replied

  
Tony650
Member (Idle past 3272 days)
Posts: 450
From: Australia
Joined: 01-30-2004


Message 137 of 144 (139454)
09-03-2004 1:59 AM
Reply to: Message 134 by happy_atheist
09-02-2004 11:17 AM


happy_atheist writes:

Yes, if two quantum particles are in the same state they are indistinquishable and to all intents and purposes the same.

So in a sense the same particle can occupy two points in space simultaneously?

Also, this is how you can affect particle A by doing something to particle B, correct? I understand that anything done to one will happen to the other.

happy_atheist writes:

Thats what makes teleportation different to a photocopy.

Hmm...I'm afraid I'm still not clear on the difference, though. Perhaps I should rephrase the question.

What would constitute particle B being a copy of particle A, as opposed to indistinguishable from particle A? If one particle is a mere copy of the other, how can you tell the difference between them?

happy_atheist writes:

They condense to the same quantum mechanical energy state, not the same position in space

So is my understanding correct that all the particles in a condensate can be viewed as one particle occupying multiple points in space simultaneously?

happy_atheist writes:

I have the equations for it in my notes at home I think, i'll review them tonight and see if I get glean some more understanding from them.

Wow, thanks happy! Don't go to too much trouble, though. I don't want you to go out of your way for me. I appreciate your help either way.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 134 by happy_atheist, posted 09-02-2004 11:17 AM happy_atheist has taken no action

  
sidelined
Member (Idle past 5148 days)
Posts: 3435
From: Edmonton Alberta Canada
Joined: 08-30-2003


Message 138 of 144 (139799)
09-04-2004 12:57 AM
Reply to: Message 86 by Darwin Storm
08-22-2004 5:56 PM


Re: Belles Inequality
Darwin Storm

I am sorry I did not reply to this. I cannot track down the precise paper however there are several that you may scope out. These are from the University of Tel Aviv at this website

http://www.tau.ac.il/~quantum/publicat/publicat.html#weak-meas

Emergence of Weak Values
Lev Vaidman
in Quantum Interferometry, F. De Martini, G.Denardo, Y. Shih (eds.) (VCH Publishers, Weinheim, 1997), 485
quant-ph/9607023

Adiabatic Measurements on Metastable Systems
Y. Aharonov, S. Massar, S. Popescu, J. Tollaksen and L. Vaidman
Phys. Rev. Lett. 77, 983 (1996)
quant-ph/9602011

Weak-Measurement Elements of Reality
Lev Vaidman
Found. Phys. 26, 895 (1996)
quant-ph/9601005

There Is No Classical Analog of a Quantum Time-Translation Machine
Lev Vaidman
Phys. Rev. A 52, 4297 (1995)
quant-ph/9502004

Weak Measurements
Lev Vaidman
in Advances in Quantum Phenomena, E. Beltrametti and J.M. Levy-Leblond eds., NATO ASI Series B: Physics Vol. 347 (Plenum Press, NY, 1995), 357
hep-th/9408154

Negative Kinetic Energy Between Past and Future State Vectors
Daniel Rohrlich, Yakir Aharonov, Sandu Popescu and Lev Vaidman
Ann. NY Acad. Sci. 755, 394 (1995)
cond-mat/9406116

Measurements, Errors, and Negative Kinetic Energy
Y. Aharonov, S. Popescu, D. Rohrlich and L. Vaidman
Phys. Rev. A 48, 4084 (1993)
hep-th/9305075

Measurement of Negative Kinetic Energy of Tunneling Particles
Y. Aharonov, S. Popescu, D. Rohrlich and L. Vaidman
Jap. Jour. App. Phys. Series 9, 41 (1993)

A Quantum Time Machine
L. Vaidman
Found. Phys. 21, 947 (1991)

Complete Description of a Quantum System at a Given Time
Y. Aharonov and L. Vaidman
Jour. Phys. A 24, 2315 (1991)

Superpositions of Time Evolutions of a Quantum System and a Quantum Time-Translation Machine
Y. Aharonov, J. Anandan, S. Popescu and L. Vaidman
Phys. Rev. Lett. 64, 2965 (1990)

Weak Measurement of Photon Polarization
J.M. Knight and L. Vaidman
Phys. Lett. A 143, 357 (1990)

Properties of a Quantum System During the Time Interval Between Two Measurements
Y. Aharonov and L. Vaidman
Phys. Rev. A 41, 11 (1990)

Reply to Leggett and Peres on "How the result..."
Y. Aharonov and L. Vaidman
Phys. Rev. Lett. 62, 2327 (1989)

A New Characteristic of a Quantum System Between Two Measurements - a Weak Value
Y. Aharonov and L. Vaidman
in Bell's Theorem, Quantum Theory and Conceptions of the Universe, M. Kafatos (ed.), 17 (1989)

How the Result of Measurement of a Component of the Spin of a Spin-1/2 Particle Can Turn Out to Be 100
Y. Aharonov, D. Albert and L. Vaidman
Phys. Rev. Lett. 60, 1351 (1988)

Surprising Quantum Effects
Y. Aharonov, D. Albert, A. Casher and L. Vaidman
Phys. Lett. A 124, 199 (1987)

How to Ascertain the Values of Sigma_x, Sigma_y, and Sigma_z of a Spin-1/2 Particle
L. Vaidman, Y. Aharonov and D. Albert
Phys. Rev. Lett. 58, 1385 (1987)


This message is a reply to:
 Message 86 by Darwin Storm, posted 08-22-2004 5:56 PM Darwin Storm has taken no action

  
Tony650
Member (Idle past 3272 days)
Posts: 450
From: Australia
Joined: 01-30-2004


Message 139 of 144 (140287)
09-06-2004 9:56 AM
Reply to: Message 134 by happy_atheist
09-02-2004 11:17 AM


Hi happy. This is just a bump in case you missed my reply to your post. It isn't registering on your message index page and I didn't want you to think I'd ignored you.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 134 by happy_atheist, posted 09-02-2004 11:17 AM happy_atheist has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 142 by happy_atheist, posted 09-07-2004 11:57 AM Tony650 has replied

  
Tony650
Member (Idle past 3272 days)
Posts: 450
From: Australia
Joined: 01-30-2004


Message 140 of 144 (140289)
09-06-2004 10:06 AM
Reply to: Message 135 by happy_atheist
09-02-2004 11:18 AM


Hold on...it's still not registering. I think I replied to the wrong post. Let's see if this one works.

EDIT:

Yep, that did it. Sorry about that, happy. Anyway, if you don't know what I'm on about, see post number 139 above.

This message has been edited by Tony650, 09-06-2004 09:08 AM


This message is a reply to:
 Message 135 by happy_atheist, posted 09-02-2004 11:18 AM happy_atheist has taken no action

  
sidelined
Member (Idle past 5148 days)
Posts: 3435
From: Edmonton Alberta Canada
Joined: 08-30-2003


Message 141 of 144 (140306)
09-06-2004 11:03 AM
Reply to: Message 136 by Tony650
09-03-2004 1:50 AM


Tony650

I think I get what you're saying. One question, though; will this problem always be inherent in our equipment/techniques or is it something that could be eliminated as our equipment/techniques become more refined?

The problem lies in the fact that our instruments sre made of the same stuff as that which we are trying to study. Any limitations on the subject are also a limitation on the investigating instrument.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 136 by Tony650, posted 09-03-2004 1:50 AM Tony650 has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 143 by Tony650, posted 09-07-2004 12:59 PM sidelined has taken no action

  
happy_atheist
Member (Idle past 4154 days)
Posts: 326
Joined: 08-21-2004


Message 142 of 144 (140660)
09-07-2004 11:57 AM
Reply to: Message 139 by Tony650
09-06-2004 9:56 AM


Sorry for taking so long to reply. I may have to wait until friday to post from my notes back home. I'm have to hand my dissertation in on friday (i have over 18000 words done, i must have been working harder than I realised lol). I haven't had the chance to read through my notes yet

This message is a reply to:
 Message 139 by Tony650, posted 09-06-2004 9:56 AM Tony650 has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 144 by Tony650, posted 09-07-2004 1:02 PM happy_atheist has taken no action

  
Tony650
Member (Idle past 3272 days)
Posts: 450
From: Australia
Joined: 01-30-2004


Message 143 of 144 (140673)
09-07-2004 12:59 PM
Reply to: Message 141 by sidelined
09-06-2004 11:03 AM


sidelined writes:

The problem lies in the fact that our instruments sre made of the same stuff as that which we are trying to study. Any limitations on the subject are also a limitation on the investigating instrument.

Of course. So the only way around this would be to find a way to study them which doesn't require anything made of them? Hmm...well I, for one, can think of no way to do this.

Anyway, I understand that. Thank you, sidelined.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 141 by sidelined, posted 09-06-2004 11:03 AM sidelined has taken no action

  
Tony650
Member (Idle past 3272 days)
Posts: 450
From: Australia
Joined: 01-30-2004


Message 144 of 144 (140674)
09-07-2004 1:02 PM
Reply to: Message 142 by happy_atheist
09-07-2004 11:57 AM


happy_atheist writes:

Sorry for taking so long to reply. I may have to wait until friday to post from my notes back home. I'm have to hand my dissertation in on friday (i have over 18000 words done, i must have been working harder than I realised lol). I haven't had the chance to read through my notes yet

No, don't rush for me. Work on your dissertation; that's more important. Take all the time you need.

In any case, I hope you didn't think I was hounding you for an answer; I just wanted to make sure you knew I'd replied. It wasn't showing up under your "Replies Await" column and I didn't want you to think I'd just ignored you.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 142 by happy_atheist, posted 09-07-2004 11:57 AM happy_atheist has taken no action

  
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