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Author Topic:   Thermodynamics and The Universe
Parasomnium
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Posts: 2224
Joined: 07-15-2003


Message 87 of 186 (386496)
02-22-2007 5:13 AM
Reply to: Message 84 by Buzsaw
02-22-2007 12:41 AM


Logic vs. common sense
Hello Buz,
As SophistiCat already hinted at, I think that your problem lies in a conflation of common sense and logic. They are not the same. For example, our common sense tells us that the sun orbits the earth. After all, we can see it happening everyday. But if we apply rigorous logic to all the observed facts, then we must conclude that the earth revolves around its axis, which creates the illusion of the sun orbiting the earth.
The following anecdote about the philosopher Ludwig Wittgenstein nicely illustrates my point. He once asked a friend: "Why do people always say that it was natural for Man to assume that the sun went round the Earth, rather than that the Earth was rotating?" His friend replied: "Well, obviously because it just looked as if the sun was going round the Earth." Wittgenstein then asked: "Well, what would it have looked like if it had looked as if the Earth was rotating?"
You might want to read it again - I know I did - to fully appreciate the profound insight Wittgenstein expressed here. I hope it shows that common sense is not always guaranteed to tell us how things really work.
On top of that, your present problems with all things quantum probably stem from the fact that our common sense notions of the world are derived from our experiences with it on our own, intermediate, scale. Quantum physics, on the other hand, deals with things on an unimaginably small scale, while Einstein's relativity theory deals with things on an equally unimaginably large scale. Things simply do not behave in the same way in these three realms - the very small, the intermediate, and the very large.
Elementary particles, often depicted as tiny billiard balls, do not behave like real billiard balls, and billiard balls themselves do not behave like stars and planets. Each category has its own particulars as far as physics is concerned, and we are simply most used to the way billiard balls behave. Both quantum and relativistic effects are unobservable in this middle range, so if we base our understanding of either quantum mechanics or Big Bang cosmology on our experience with billiard balls, we are bound to go wrong somewhere.
I hope this helps.

"Ignorance more frequently begets confidence than does knowledge: it is those who know little, not those who know much, who so positively assert that this or that problem will never be solved by science." - Charles Darwin.
Did you know that most of the time your computer is doing nothing? What if you could make it do something really useful? Like helping scientists understand diseases? Your computer could even be instrumental in finding a cure for HIV/AIDS. Wouldn't that be something? If you agree, then join World Community Grid now and download a simple, free tool that lets you and your computer do your share in helping humanity. After all, you are part of it, so why not take part in it?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 84 by Buzsaw, posted 02-22-2007 12:41 AM Buzsaw has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 90 by Buzsaw, posted 02-22-2007 9:41 AM Parasomnium has replied

  
Parasomnium
Member
Posts: 2224
Joined: 07-15-2003


Message 97 of 186 (386605)
02-22-2007 3:57 PM
Reply to: Message 90 by Buzsaw
02-22-2007 9:41 AM


Re: Logic vs. common sense
Buzsaw writes:
1. How then does QM explain the Solar System, or do you think that it does?
Please read again what I said. Quantum physics cannot be used to explain the Solar system, you need classical theories for that: Newtonian physics and relativity.
2. I don't see the sun/earth analogy as analogous to my points regarding QM and Thermodynamics.
My point was that if someone is using their own human-scale everyday experience to try and understand quantum physics, they are going to fail miserably. If quantum physics is perceived as mysterious and obfuscatory, it's precisely because of this way of looking at it. And however mysterious and obfuscatory quantum physics may seem, there's one thing it's most emphatically not, and that's controversial. Quantum physics is one of the most successful, best tested and widely accepted theories in the whole of science, right up there with - you won't like this, Buz - the theory of evolution. Quantum physics enables scientists to make astoundingly accurate predictions that are borne out by observation:
quote:
"Richard Feynman compared [quantum physics'] precision to predicting a distance as great as the width of North America to an accuracy of one human hair's breadth." - Richard Dawkins, The God Delusion

This message is a reply to:
 Message 90 by Buzsaw, posted 02-22-2007 9:41 AM Buzsaw has not replied

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