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Author | Topic: New Big Bang Cosmology | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||
Gup20 Inactive Member |
What do you guys think of the new cosmology proposed by Smoller/Temple
http://www.pubmedcentral.com/articlerender.fcgi?artid=208737 Here is the Abstract to their paper: We construct a class of global exact solutions of the Einstein equations that extend the Oppeheimer—Snyder model to the case of nonzero pressure, inside the black hole, by incorporating a shock wave at the leading edge of the expansion of the galaxies, arbitrarily far beyond the Hubble length in the Friedmann—Robertson—Walker (FRW) spacetime. Here the expanding FRW universe emerges be-hind a subluminous blast wave that explodes outward from the FRW center at the instant of the big bang. The total mass behind the shock decreases as the shock wave expands, and the entropy condition implies that the shock wave must weaken to the point where it settles down to an Oppenheimer—Snyder interface, (bounding a finite total mass), that eventually emerges from the white hole event horizon of an ambient Schwarzschild spacetime. The entropy condition breaks the time symmetry of the Einstein equations, selecting the explosion over the implosion. These shock-wave solutions indicate a cosmological model in which the big bang arises from a localized explosion occurring inside the black hole of an asymptotically flat Schwarzschild spacetime. The main deviations here is that the 'big bang' cosmology contains a universe center and an edge. They talk about everything coming from a white hole. also check their oral description - Index of /~temple/articles This message has been edited by Gup20, 05-08-2004 02:50 PM
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AdminNosy Administrator Posts: 4754 From: Vancouver, BC, Canada Joined: |
Thread moved here from the Proposed New Topics forum.
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Beercules Inactive Member |
quote:And what is going on with the background spacetime? Expansion? Contraction? It seems to be in the same boat as the idea that life on earth originated on Mars. Interesting idea, but pushes the question of origins back a notch. |
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RingoKid Inactive Member |
...a leading edge, a middle and a frontier where known physical laws breakdown as inside the singularties.
shock waves...eh ??? that reminds me of ripples in a spherical pond and all embedded in a higher medium a "white hole" of singular nothingness that is only relative to itself that sounds like something i thought of too but with less proof... now i wonder if they can make the black holes lead to the edge or middle and appear as tendrils extending back thru spacetime and acting as balance mechanisms to maintain equilibrium around a fixed central expansion point or even make them detachable to become wormholes... So does that model imply a universe resembling the skinned membrane of a bubble that is 13.7 billion light years thick but when veiwed from a point outside of the expanding sphere would resemble a bubble infinitely large and would it not then also allow for consequent ripples of the initial blast to exist as alternate universes ...time will tell and i got nothing to lose but it seems that deafening silence is becoming a roar that may well resonate thru the entire universe and beyond
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Gup20 Inactive Member |
Their model is based on the concept of a white hole - which is basically a black hole running in reverse. The 'edge' would be the event horizon of the white hole. Time, as it were, would be a result of the relativity between objects near the center and objects near the edge.
I will get to the reason I ask the question later tonight or tomorrow.
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Gup20 Inactive Member |
The reason I ask, is because this model proposed by Smoller/Temple has been proposed (in part) before by Dr. Russel Humphreys in his book Starlight & Time (D.R. Humphreys, Starlight and Time, Master Books, Green Forest, Arkansas, 1994.) also proposed a Cosmology which had 'white hole' type features such as a center and an edge (event horizon).
The 'big bang' theory has long held the belief that there is no center and no edge to the universe. The Slaon Digital Sky Survey team has develped the best three-dimentional map of the universe to date, mapping over 200,000 galaxies up to two billion light years away. This map (which you can see here) shows clear concentric circles as you get farther and farther out from the center. This fits with the Humphreys and smoller/temple view that there was an explosion of finate mass with a center and an edge. The density distribution of galaxies WAS expected to increase with distance in a 'big bang' universe. On the map, the galaxy density seems to oscillate with distance hence the circular structures. See Exploding the big bang!
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Eta_Carinae Member (Idle past 4396 days) Posts: 547 From: US Joined: |
Gup20,
Your post highlights that you do not understand what you are seeing in the SDSS map. Please go read some of the Sloan papers describing the maps. You will then learn why your simple interpretation is totally wrong.
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cshumway89 Inactive Member |
Sorry guys God is real. He lives in each of us. Jesus was sent down on to earth to die for our sins. He died doing nothing wrong at all. Jesus was real. He did live. Floating matter just doesnt swirl around utnil something is made. Something had to put us here. And you better change or you won't go to heaven. Believe.
Your Friendly Neighborhood Christian, CS
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coffee_addict Member (Idle past 499 days) Posts: 3645 From: Indianapolis, IN Joined: |
cshumway89 writes:
And this has what to do with cosmology? Sorry guys God is real. He lives in each of us. Jesus was sent down on to earth to die for our sins. He died doing nothing wrong at all. Jesus was real. He did live. Floating matter just doesnt swirl around utnil something is made. Something had to put us here. And you better change or you won't go to heaven. Believe.Your Friendly Neighborhood Christian, The Laminator
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AdminNosy Administrator Posts: 4754 From: Vancouver, BC, Canada Joined: |
As noted it is expected that you will attempt to remain on topic. All of us wander a bit astray now and then but you will be reminded when you do.
There are guidelines in this forum and there is enforcement. Although we try to give everyone a lot of lee way.
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jar Member (Idle past 416 days) Posts: 34026 From: Texas!! Joined: |
and now back to the regularly scheduled discussion.
Aslan is not a Tame Lion
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AdminAsgara Administrator (Idle past 2324 days) Posts: 2073 From: The Universe Joined: |
Hi cshumway89,
Welcome to EvC. We have multiple fora here with numerous threads in each. We try to stay on topic and the topic here is New Big Bang Cosmology in the forum Big Bang and Cosmology. Please take any discussion of religion to one of the many religion threads in the following fora
Sheesh..it helps to close out your lists... This message has been edited by AdminAsgara, 05-12-2004 03:23 PM AdminAsgara Queen of the Universe
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extremophile Member (Idle past 5617 days) Posts: 53 Joined: |
I've read that some YECs says that this is someway favorable to them, but OECs says that is not, I think I saw it in a site called "science watch" or something.
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Beercules Inactive Member |
quote:That's not necessarily a postulate of the big bang. The assumption of a centerless universe comes from the cosmological principle, which would still be in effect even if there was no big bang. The model above doesn't seem to change this, since our local big bang took place within a pre-existing spacetime. This doesn't offer an explanation of the origin of the entire universe.
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Gup20 Inactive Member |
This doesn't offer an explanation of the origin of the entire universe. The smoller/temple paper does not, however, Physicist Dr. Russel Humphrey's cosmology does. Indeed it takes the position that the universe has a center and an edge and that we are at or near the center. Humphreys is a Young Earth Creationist. He believes this cosmology answers some of the questions the traditional 'big bang' theory leaves open. Not being a physicist myself, let me try to give you my interpretation of what I think he is trying to say - Being a literal creationist, we would believe that the earth and the universe were created according to the account in Genesis. Here are the verses we will reference (they are essential to the YE-creationist view of the creation of time and space). Gen 1:3 And God said, Let there be light: and there was light.Gen 1:4 And God saw the light, that [it was] good: and God divided the light from the darkness. Gen 1:5 And God called the light Day, and the darkness he called Night. And the evening and the morning were the first day. We see that God created light, and then separated light from darkness. He called it day and night. THEN, the first mention of TIME is recorded in the Bible - evening, morning, were the first day. Lets break that down - 1. God created light. In other scriptures it says that God is light. God is eternal, therefore we can surmise that God is separating time from eternity. God is creating our 'space/time continuum' as it were. This is further supported scientifically. Look at Einstein's theory - E=MC^2. Energy and mass are dependent on the constant of the 'speed of light'. Even Newton's equasions on Gravity are based on mass. Moreover, the way we often measure gravity is by acceleration which is a speed calculation - distance and time. So, we can see that the very laws of the universe are insepperable from light and time. In creating light, God basically created the 'constants' he would need from which all the laws of the universe follow. 2. God separated light from darkness and called the light day and the darkness night. Here we see the clear separation of 'eternity' from 'time'. If God is light and God is eternal, we can see that separating light from dark is actually the creation of time. It is very important to note that God does not create the sun or stars until day 4 - so this light here is NOT physical light from the sun. 3. The evening and the morning were the first day. This is also very important. If we do a word study in the Bible - the Hebrew word YOM is used for 'day'. Whenever YOM is used in conjunction with 'evening' it always means a literal (1 earth revolution) day. Whenever YOM is used in conjunction with the word morning, it always means 1 literal day. Whenever YOM is used in conjuction with a number (such as the word 'first') it always means a literal day. So from this verse we can accurately see that this is the first mention in the bible of literal passing of time. However, like I mentioned, the sun, moon, and stars have not yet been created - that happens on day4. This is further indication that it was written this way to give the reader an accurate representation of the ammount of time that was passing. One literal day. So, in summery - God creates light, separates it from darkness, and in doing so starts time - which is evidenced by the 'begining of the clock' when he says 'the evening and morning were the first day'. The purpose of DAY 1 of the creative week was the creation of all space, time, and energy. One of the unanswered questions of the creation of the universe (as it relates to the 'big bang') that creationists got were 'if the universe is only 6000 years old, how can we see light from starts that are millions of light years away?'. Humphrey's cosmology definitively answers that question. If indeed the universe as we know it has a center and an edge, and if we are close to the center than we are to the edge, then time is relativistic. For those planets and galaxies close to the edge (or event horizon) of the universe, time is much faster. For those things nearer the center of the universe, time would pass more slowly. Therefore, there is time dialation between us and the stars - this is how we can see light from stars that are millions of light years away while only 6000 years passes on earth. Keep in mind, according to the creationist point of view, God spent several additional days beyond the creation of the 'rest of the universe' in creating life on earth (plants, then sea creatures, then land animals and finally man). Therefore, it stands to reason that the earth is very near or at the center of the universe, or even, perhaps, that the earth was somewhat uneffected by the established laws of the universe as God - who is not bound by time or space - continued his work here. Scientifically, red shifts (as well as the concentric circles on that 3d map) are some other 'evidences' of this cosmology. I will post more on that later when I have more time. See 'Evolutionist science journal gives exciting support to creationist cosmology!
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