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Author Topic:   Laws of Conservation?
New Cat's Eye
Inactive Member


Message 11 of 86 (499364)
02-18-2009 12:47 PM
Reply to: Message 9 by JaysonD
02-18-2009 12:33 PM


I don't get this.
... In the case of the universe, there was no time when the universe did not exist -- there was no "before" the universe since there was no "time." ...
It seems to imply that mass/energy is required for time to exist. Could someone explain it or give me some links?
Time is a part of the universe, itself, not something that the universe exists within. Time doesn't exist if the universe doesn't exist.

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 Message 9 by JaysonD, posted 02-18-2009 12:33 PM JaysonD has not replied

  
New Cat's Eye
Inactive Member


Message 14 of 86 (499430)
02-18-2009 4:05 PM
Reply to: Message 12 by JaysonD
02-18-2009 3:01 PM


Thanks, I guess I was just thinking of the big bang as the source of matter in the universe and not time as well.
Yeah, that's incorrect.
So my question now is why do we assume the big bang created time.
Its not an assumptions, it a conclusion. And it comes from general relativity.
In other words is time a function of matter and energy or could there be some other type of universe with a whole bunch of time but no matter or energy.
Time is a dimension of the universe. Just like up-down, left-right, forward-backwards are all spatial dimension, time too is a dimension (but not a spatial one). Matter and energy exist within the dimensions so questions about them vs. time don't make much sense.
You could look at the wiki page on spacetime for plenty of stuff to read and learn about.
Have fun with it.

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Replies to this message:
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New Cat's Eye
Inactive Member


Message 24 of 86 (499592)
02-19-2009 10:16 AM
Reply to: Message 23 by grant111
02-18-2009 9:36 PM


Are you implying that there is infinite space and time?
No, not infinite. The implication is that it is unbounded.
Spacetime is a 4d manifold that is finite but it is also unbounded.
For an anology of what that means, consider the surface of the Earth (just the surface). The surface of the Earth is a 2d manifold that is also finite yet unbounded. It is finite because there not an infinite amount of surface, but since you could walk in a straight line forever, it is unbounded.

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New Cat's Eye
Inactive Member


Message 63 of 86 (500939)
03-03-2009 2:20 PM
Reply to: Message 61 by RCS
03-03-2009 4:50 AM


Time is not a real and perceptible object. It is infered by presence of change/motion.
That is simply not true. You are espousing out-of-date ideas. We know this because of Time Dilation.
You need to catch up to the times. I suggest starting here or here.
Come back with any questions you have after you catch up to the fact that time is real and perceptable and not just infered from the presence of motion.
In an absolute stasis, time would not be observed.
Absolute stasis does not exist.
Space too is an infered object. An observer needs the presence of material objects to be concious of space.
Again, you are just plain wrong. These are outdated ideas that have been refuted. You need to catch up.
Again, wikipedia is going ot be your best starting point. Look here too.
Here's some images that I feel help conceptualize the idead:
Space as a real something:
The grid is space ans it is something. See how mass can bend space, itself?
Time as a real something:
quote:
Evolution of a world line of an accelerated massive particle. This worldline is restricted to the timelike top and bottom sections of this spacetime figure and can not cross the top (future) nor the bottom (past) light cone. The left and right sections, outside the light cones are spacelike.
See how the time 'expands' and 'collapses'?

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Replies to this message:
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New Cat's Eye
Inactive Member


Message 65 of 86 (500980)
03-03-2009 5:05 PM
Reply to: Message 64 by onifre
03-03-2009 4:31 PM


Absolute stasis does not exist.
Except for a photon at (c).
Got a link where I can read up on that?
At first glance, it simply having a velocity seems to suggest that it really isn't absolute stasis.
I don't know if that's what he was refering to
Seriously!? I think you're just being nice.
He said that time is inferred from motion and then that in an absolute stasis there wouldn't be time. He was obviously talking about massive objects and them stopping from moving.
And I don't even think he's talking about 0 Kelvin...
but at (c) this statement of his is correct,
time would not be observed.
Maybe I don't know what absolute stasis is....
Does time not being observed even imply absolute stasis? I can see absolute stasis implying time not being observed but visa versa I'm not seeing it.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 64 by onifre, posted 03-03-2009 4:31 PM onifre has replied

Replies to this message:
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