Laws of Conservation?

The book is in my bedroom. So, I might misquote a little. David Mills who seems like a reasonably smart dude wrote in chapter 2 about Law of Conservation/Mass in his best selling book Atheist Universe.David explained this law states matter can not be created or destroyed. He went on to say that matter & energy are the same. He mentioned that we are all made up of this mass/energy stuff. He mentioned none of this isolated system stuff.Although he did not put it this way: It is unreasonable to pick from hundreds of uncreated invisible creators because this one or that one suits your fancy. Not forgetting by their very supernatural nature these things(gods?) are forever unknown to the human mind. Then to have the callousness to say it is my invisible thing in another dimension not yours that created the known using magic from an unknown location ex-nihlo not yours. If you disagree I might desire to convert you and argue. IF that fails death and torture might be likely. Oh ya you might be punished if you continue to worship your thing.Now he did go on to say that because we are made of this stuff and it can not be created or destroyed and the volume of this stuff has not and can not changed based on this accepted law it is obvious that it is this stuff that has existed forever. He also pointed out until it can be demonstrated this can be proven untrue it is what it is. Therefore a god did not do it.**it is my understanding that energy of some sort is wizzing around at light speed. Some type of unknown omnipresent field that can not be turned on or off slows this energy allowing it to become mass or gain mass or some shit like that. **This is what David said in his book. Oh ya he also said some hardcore physicists might simply say before time a beginning is not mathematically possible. Which some of you have? I think he implied this is just elitist attitude and the question is better delt with by saying, "We dunno but we lookin".PB

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No, they are not the same at all. Even saying that *mass* and energy are the same is too much of a stretch, unless you explicitly mention your context.

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He did say Mass & Energy not matter.Here is his site:http://davidmills.net/Atheist-Universe-Excerpt.pdf

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2 Origin of the Universe: Natural or Supernatural? 65

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I wonder if I just completely misunderstood what he was saying.I found his book online. Removal Notice | Scribd. I am not sure if this is legal or not. So, I would not suggest you go there. Rather consider this a historical reference. Page 71-81 are where his conversations on this topic begin.This book for quite a long time was an Amazon best seller. Still one of the top selling 4,500 books I believe. I understand the amount of copies a book sells has little to do with it's truth. I will re-read it as I fear my interpretation might be wrong. However, based on the fact it has done so well and I have found no one else suggesting it is wrong For now I will view him as the authority.

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Yeah, and given his level of misunderstanding, he'd be one to know

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I wonder if he is the idiot? Am I misunderstanding? OR you? I guess I will re-read then write him. If he is in fact wrong(doubtful it must be me). But if he is I do doubt it is intentional and he needs to fully understand whyOH CRAP I AM CONFUSED - DEAR JESUS!Thanks cave!

I do not understand why you are saying he is wrong nor do I want to clutter a thread with my misunderstanding. At this point it is just too complicated. However, my understanding of the law discussed in this thread came from his book. I would also be willing to bet that there might be thousands like me - this is an atheist best seller. I was curious if others in this thread agree with Mr.Diver and if anything from the book adds any value to this discussion.If it was incorrect I wonder if it is intentional deception. It disgusts me when either side prints such lies with such authority(bible cough cough). Legally I do not believe it should be allowed. Perjury is illegal! This is no court room but the seriousness of such discussions should make the offense more serious. That said I have nothing additional to add in public forumt_schwartz317@sbcglobal.netEdited by Purpledbear, : Need to switch up some of the words.

I lied, I am back. Last time I promise. Firstly, I find it very discouraging that he is incorrect. This is because he and I are on the same side - god did not do it. Again it disgusts me when even I present false information on a forum. I do my best to double or triple my facts and I am just posting on a forum. The fact someone would write a book about it and not check the facts - all he needed to do is ask you. Add to that the fact he has probably earned thousands or tens of thousands of dollars through presenting this and other information. Anyway I apologize and understand if this post is deleted as a rant or clutter of an intelligent thread. On my journey it just seems impossible to determine who is right and who is wrong.