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Author Topic:   Falsifying a young Universe. (re: Supernova 1987A)
Phat
Member
Posts: 18248
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.1


Message 343 of 948 (781461)
04-04-2016 3:21 PM
Reply to: Message 337 by starlite
04-04-2016 2:40 PM


Its All Relative
Sticks and stones may break my bones but names will never hurt me.
Some names hurt me. Names such as "Liar" or "Con". I forgive my accusers only because they do not understand me.
Other names actually help me. Names such as "Leader" or "wise one" or "smart guy".
My point is that words can hurt others...but they can also help and encourage them.
Thankfully, we cant get hurt by sticks or stones on the internet.

Chance as a real force is a myth. It has no basis in reality and no place in scientific inquiry. For science and philosophy to continue to advance in knowledge, chance must be demythologized once and for all. —RC Sproul
"A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." —Mark Twain

This message is a reply to:
 Message 337 by starlite, posted 04-04-2016 2:40 PM starlite has not replied

  
Phat
Member
Posts: 18248
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.1


Message 352 of 948 (781492)
04-04-2016 5:45 PM
Reply to: Message 347 by starlite
04-04-2016 4:56 PM


Mod Squad
starlite writes:
I agree, and await evidence time exists in the far universe.
Are you suggesting that there is no time at all in the far universe?
By the way, I also am a moderator and wish to remind you that while it may be an adrenaline rush to do a driveby, it is better to get to know people and challenge yourself. You can be a leader or you can be a Chuunibyou the choice is up to you. The mods will suspend you if you seek only the thrill of a driveby, but if you want to open up and tell me about your life, goals, passions and plans, i'll respectfully listen. I won't be nice to a Chuunibyou, however.

Chance as a real force is a myth. It has no basis in reality and no place in scientific inquiry. For science and philosophy to continue to advance in knowledge, chance must be demythologized once and for all. —RC Sproul
"A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." —Mark Twain

This message is a reply to:
 Message 347 by starlite, posted 04-04-2016 4:56 PM starlite has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 353 by starlite, posted 04-04-2016 8:53 PM Phat has seen this message but not replied

  
Phat
Member
Posts: 18248
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.1


Message 365 of 948 (781561)
04-05-2016 9:37 AM
Reply to: Message 364 by JonF
04-05-2016 9:28 AM


Back On Topic
JonF, dont pour gasoline on the fire.

Chance as a real force is a myth. It has no basis in reality and no place in scientific inquiry. For science and philosophy to continue to advance in knowledge, chance must be demythologized once and for all. —RC Sproul
"A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." —Mark Twain

This message is a reply to:
 Message 364 by JonF, posted 04-05-2016 9:28 AM JonF has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 371 by Theodoric, posted 04-07-2016 11:13 AM Phat has replied

  
Phat
Member
Posts: 18248
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.1


Message 372 of 948 (781755)
04-07-2016 11:40 AM
Reply to: Message 371 by Theodoric
04-07-2016 11:13 AM


Re: Back On Topic
Theodoric writes:
JonF asking Starlite to show how he is wrong is very on topic. That is how a discussion forum works. Sorry if that makes you feel uncomfortable, but people spouting shit need to be exposed as spouting shit.
You have a point, but I was trying to allow starlite a chance to humble himself, grow up, and hang with us for awhile rather than pulling a driveby hit & run and act as if he knows more than we do.
thats all

Chance as a real force is a myth. It has no basis in reality and no place in scientific inquiry. For science and philosophy to continue to advance in knowledge, chance must be demythologized once and for all. —RC Sproul
"A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." —Mark Twain

This message is a reply to:
 Message 371 by Theodoric, posted 04-07-2016 11:13 AM Theodoric has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 373 by Theodoric, posted 04-07-2016 11:52 AM Phat has seen this message but not replied

  
Phat
Member
Posts: 18248
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.1


Message 375 of 948 (781845)
04-08-2016 8:15 AM
Reply to: Message 374 by Son Goku
04-08-2016 4:19 AM


Topic Synopsis
Son Goku writes:
There's very simple evidence that time exists in the distant universe. If you look at distant stars, wait a while, then look at them again, they will have changed. Hence they change state, so time must pass for them in order for these changes to occur.
Thanks for stepping in and clearing that up. You are one of my favorite Science Posters. Steering this topic back on topic:
quote:
The young Universe position is logically on a weaker footing than an old Universe stance.
The YEC arguments base themselves as providing an alternative explanation for old Universe evidence.
They do not provide any 'facts' that categorically prove a young Universe, just supposed new interpretations that allow for a young Universe.
This being said, you only have to provide a single example of an old Universe that cannot be argued with and, ergo, you have falsified the young Universe position.
Sounds logical from a Science perspective. For anyone interested in what everyone had to say over the last 13 years, feel free to scroll through the topic and read all of the answers (and non answers) that fueled this original discussion. Otherwise simply state your opinion from this synopsis of how the topic author--no longer active by the way--felt.

Chance as a real force is a myth. It has no basis in reality and no place in scientific inquiry. For science and philosophy to continue to advance in knowledge, chance must be demythologized once and for all. —RC Sproul
"A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." —Mark Twain

This message is a reply to:
 Message 374 by Son Goku, posted 04-08-2016 4:19 AM Son Goku has not replied

  
Phat
Member
Posts: 18248
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.1


(1)
Message 382 of 948 (797513)
01-23-2017 9:55 AM
Reply to: Message 380 by creation
01-23-2017 9:20 AM


Time and Space
Welcome to EvC, time. Stick around...even if few people agree with you. They never agree with me either. This forum is a great place to test and hone your discussion/debate skills.
time writes:
Even if time exists there, we have no reason to assume it is the same.
Out of curiosity, what would we expect to be a tentative conclusion if in fact time actually was different "there"?
Edited by Phat, : No reason given.

Chance as a real force is a myth. It has no basis in reality and no place in scientific inquiry. For science and philosophy to continue to advance in knowledge, chance must be demythologized once and for all. —RC Sproul
"A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." —Mark Twain "
~"If that's not sufficient for you go soak your head."~Faith
Whoever trusts in his own mind is a fool, but he who walks in wisdom will be delivered.~Proverbs 28:26

This message is a reply to:
 Message 380 by creation, posted 01-23-2017 9:20 AM creation has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 384 by creation, posted 01-23-2017 1:39 PM Phat has replied

  
Phat
Member
Posts: 18248
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.1


Message 392 of 948 (797536)
01-23-2017 4:01 PM
Reply to: Message 384 by creation
01-23-2017 1:39 PM


Re: Time and Space
time writes:
I think man is too small, and that science is too small to really know that.
Here at EvC we have faith based forums and science-based forums. Is your conclusion based on science or are you a man of faith? (Personally, I am a man of faith) Are you a student and...if so...what do you want to study and learn the next few years?

Chance as a real force is a myth. It has no basis in reality and no place in scientific inquiry. For science and philosophy to continue to advance in knowledge, chance must be demythologized once and for all. —RC Sproul
"A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." —Mark Twain "
~"If that's not sufficient for you go soak your head."~Faith
Whoever trusts in his own mind is a fool, but he who walks in wisdom will be delivered.~Proverbs 28:26

This message is a reply to:
 Message 384 by creation, posted 01-23-2017 1:39 PM creation has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 394 by creation, posted 01-23-2017 4:10 PM Phat has seen this message but not replied

  
Phat
Member
Posts: 18248
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.1


Message 631 of 948 (823324)
11-09-2017 9:58 AM
Reply to: Message 614 by starman
11-07-2017 4:05 PM


Re: A bridge to the stars
starman writes:
I think Jesus will show us one day, and the nobel nonsense will be extinct.
Let me see if I properly understand you. You say to science that it really does not understand the measurement of time in distant stars and galaxies, right?
As a believer, do you think that science has been deceived or misled in some way?
Do you believe that Jesus Christ is the same yesterday, today, and forever?
How should a believer approach science? Is it wise or even possible to reject the scientific method as now presented?

Chance as a real force is a myth. It has no basis in reality and no place in scientific inquiry. For science and philosophy to continue to advance in knowledge, chance must be demythologized once and for all. —RC Sproul
"A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." —Mark Twain "
~"If that's not sufficient for you go soak your head."~Faith
Paul was probably SO soaked in prayer nobody else has ever equaled him.~Faith

This message is a reply to:
 Message 614 by starman, posted 11-07-2017 4:05 PM starman has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 632 by jar, posted 11-09-2017 10:23 AM Phat has seen this message but not replied
 Message 633 by RAZD, posted 11-09-2017 11:32 AM Phat has seen this message but not replied
 Message 637 by starman, posted 11-09-2017 3:25 PM Phat has not replied

  
Phat
Member
Posts: 18248
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.1


(1)
Message 790 of 948 (841416)
10-12-2018 4:11 PM
Reply to: Message 778 by creation
10-11-2018 9:06 AM


Re: A couple questions for creation ...
creation writes:
In my belief set, God created it and set it up.
Fair enough. Were you taught this initially or did you wake up one day with an epiphany that it was true? Or do you also just "believe real hard"..?
creation writes:
My side will win.
If by "your side" you mean God, I agree. God always wins. How can He lose? The mistake we make as believers is in proclaiming our arguments as Gods arguments...as if He gave us a dose of intelligence beyond normal...but when faced with debates, we end up resorting to ridicule and name calling of the "educated" ignoramuses.
I have a question for you. If God gave you one minute to convince the atheists and agnostic science humanists here of the reality of your Savior and Master, what would you tell us?

Chance as a real force is a myth. It has no basis in reality and no place in scientific inquiry. For science and philosophy to continue to advance in knowledge, chance must be demythologized once and for all. —RC Sproul
"A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." —Mark Twain "
~"If that's not sufficient for you go soak your head."~Faith
You can "get answers" by watching the ducks. That doesn't mean the answers are coming from them.~Ringo

This message is a reply to:
 Message 778 by creation, posted 10-11-2018 9:06 AM creation has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 792 by dwise1, posted 10-12-2018 5:34 PM Phat has not replied

  
Phat
Member
Posts: 18248
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.1


(2)
Message 800 of 948 (841515)
10-14-2018 1:27 PM
Reply to: Message 799 by creation
10-14-2018 1:11 PM


Re: Voyager 1 enters new space
OK, let's assume that *we* only have blind faith. What do you have that is any better? And how do you test for yours to be real?

Chance as a real force is a myth. It has no basis in reality and no place in scientific inquiry. For science and philosophy to continue to advance in knowledge, chance must be demythologized once and for all. —RC Sproul
"A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." —Mark Twain "
~"If that's not sufficient for you go soak your head."~Faith
You can "get answers" by watching the ducks. That doesn't mean the answers are coming from them.~Ringo

This message is a reply to:
 Message 799 by creation, posted 10-14-2018 1:11 PM creation has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 801 by creation, posted 10-14-2018 3:38 PM Phat has seen this message but not replied

  
Phat
Member
Posts: 18248
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.1


Message 824 of 948 (841814)
10-22-2018 12:02 PM
Reply to: Message 817 by Son Goku
10-21-2018 3:48 PM


Re: Confusing
...Scientifically there is nothing else one can say, until somebody observes the stars doing something stellar theory can't explain.
I like that! You always explain things that are difficult in a way that makes simple minded people like me understand them. Thanks.

Chance as a real force is a myth. It has no basis in reality and no place in scientific inquiry. For science and philosophy to continue to advance in knowledge, chance must be demythologized once and for all. —RC Sproul
"A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." —Mark Twain "
~"If that's not sufficient for you go soak your head."~Faith
You can "get answers" by watching the ducks. That doesn't mean the answers are coming from them.~Ringo

This message is a reply to:
 Message 817 by Son Goku, posted 10-21-2018 3:48 PM Son Goku has not replied

  
Phat
Member
Posts: 18248
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.1


Message 825 of 948 (841815)
10-22-2018 12:04 PM
Reply to: Message 823 by ringo
10-22-2018 11:54 AM


Re: Confusing
To me, the obvious question is: How can YOU see outside the "fishbowl" to know that science is wrong?
He likely will claim that though he himself can't see that far with 100% certainty, God certainly can and does. He is basically defending God...though I never knew that God needed backup!

Chance as a real force is a myth. It has no basis in reality and no place in scientific inquiry. For science and philosophy to continue to advance in knowledge, chance must be demythologized once and for all. —RC Sproul
"A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." —Mark Twain "
~"If that's not sufficient for you go soak your head."~Faith
You can "get answers" by watching the ducks. That doesn't mean the answers are coming from them.~Ringo

This message is a reply to:
 Message 823 by ringo, posted 10-22-2018 11:54 AM ringo has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 826 by ringo, posted 10-22-2018 12:07 PM Phat has replied

  
Phat
Member
Posts: 18248
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.1


Message 828 of 948 (841830)
10-22-2018 4:04 PM
Reply to: Message 826 by ringo
10-22-2018 12:07 PM


Re: Confusing
It depends on him having special access to "God's knowledge".
Which brings up the obvious question of whether Gods "knowledge" is limited to only believers or whether it is accessible to everyone. Faith will likely assert that one must believe first which leads to one knowing that everything written must then be true.
Who's to say that a science-minded Christian can't have the same access to God?
Which then leads to the question of whether literal fundamentalist Christians see truths that other Christians miss.

Chance as a real force is a myth. It has no basis in reality and no place in scientific inquiry. For science and philosophy to continue to advance in knowledge, chance must be demythologized once and for all. —RC Sproul
"A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." —Mark Twain "
~"If that's not sufficient for you go soak your head."~Faith
You can "get answers" by watching the ducks. That doesn't mean the answers are coming from them.~Ringo

This message is a reply to:
 Message 826 by ringo, posted 10-22-2018 12:07 PM ringo has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 829 by ringo, posted 10-22-2018 4:34 PM Phat has seen this message but not replied

  
Phat
Member
Posts: 18248
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.1


Message 892 of 948 (844090)
11-25-2018 5:41 AM
Reply to: Message 891 by creation
11-25-2018 3:39 AM


Re: Confusing
Speaking of dead has anyone heard from the thread originator here?? Is he OK?
His last post here was in 2006. We used to have more members, and it was not uncommon for people to come and go....we never got to know that particular member that well.

Chance as a real force is a myth. It has no basis in reality and no place in scientific inquiry. For science and philosophy to continue to advance in knowledge, chance must be demythologized once and for all. —RC Sproul
"A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." —Mark Twain "
~"If that's not sufficient for you go soak your head."~Faith
You can "get answers" by watching the ducks. That doesn't mean the answers are coming from them.~Ringo

This message is a reply to:
 Message 891 by creation, posted 11-25-2018 3:39 AM creation has not replied

  
Phat
Member
Posts: 18248
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.1


Message 895 of 948 (844117)
11-25-2018 1:40 PM
Reply to: Message 894 by ringo
11-25-2018 1:32 PM


Re: Confusing
Not that we dont enjoy discussions with creationists such as "creation" here. When we ridicule each others arguments, our intention is not to ridicule the poster.
quote:
From Forum Guidelines:
The sincerely held beliefs of other members deserve your respect. Please keep discussion civil. Argue the position, not the person.
I would hope that creation sees us as humans and not troll fodder. We certainly respect his presence, if not his arguments.

Chance as a real force is a myth. It has no basis in reality and no place in scientific inquiry. For science and philosophy to continue to advance in knowledge, chance must be demythologized once and for all. —RC Sproul
"A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." —Mark Twain "
~"If that's not sufficient for you go soak your head."~Faith
You can "get answers" by watching the ducks. That doesn't mean the answers are coming from them.~Ringo

This message is a reply to:
 Message 894 by ringo, posted 11-25-2018 1:32 PM ringo has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 896 by Tangle, posted 11-25-2018 1:45 PM Phat has replied
 Message 897 by ringo, posted 11-25-2018 1:54 PM Phat has replied
 Message 901 by creation, posted 11-26-2018 1:17 PM Phat has replied

  
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