Register | Sign In


Understanding through Discussion


EvC Forum active members: 63 (9161 total)
3 online now:
Newest Member: popoi
Post Volume: Total: 915,585 Year: 2,842/9,624 Month: 687/1,588 Week: 93/229 Day: 4/61 Hour: 0/0


Thread  Details

Email This Thread
Newer Topic | Older Topic
  
Author Topic:   Falsifying a young Universe. (re: Supernova 1987A)
starman
Inactive Member


Message 594 of 948 (823010)
11-05-2017 2:25 AM
Reply to: Message 589 by Stile
01-30-2017 8:41 AM


Re: A bridge to the stars
To know distances in the universe you need to have time exist there as it does here. Can you demonstrate that it does exist there and exist the same as here?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 589 by Stile, posted 01-30-2017 8:41 AM Stile has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 595 by RAZD, posted 11-05-2017 8:41 AM starman has replied
 Message 607 by Stile, posted 11-07-2017 10:18 AM starman has replied

  
starman
Inactive Member


Message 596 of 948 (823025)
11-05-2017 1:12 PM
Reply to: Message 595 by RAZD
11-05-2017 8:41 AM


Re: A bridge to the stars
So? Why wouldn't it? Let's say the distances were vastly different than what we think they are, based on the calculations that depend on time existing as we know it here. So let's just use 9 light years instead of 70,000. That would affect a lot of the math.
Since time is involved in a light curve we might want to check our facts again..
If the size and distances are very wrong, assumptions such as expansion velocity, (how the distance approx proportional to center of sn etc). They also adjust the math for many things like thermal velocity, escape probability of protons...time since core collapse..dipole allowed transitions..forbidden transitions...temperature...mass...distance to the SN...etc etc to name a few.
http://adsbit.harvard.edu/cgi-bin/nph-iarticle_query?bibc...
Edited by starman, : No reason given.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 595 by RAZD, posted 11-05-2017 8:41 AM RAZD has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 597 by RAZD, posted 11-05-2017 1:37 PM starman has replied

  
starman
Inactive Member


Message 598 of 948 (823038)
11-05-2017 1:46 PM
Reply to: Message 597 by RAZD
11-05-2017 1:37 PM


Re: A bridge to the stars
No, you don't know distances at all. You see, you CANNOT grab a huge swath of TIME and space HERE in the earth solar system (base line) and then try to pretend it is a distance only measure! Ha.
Go ahead and play your little game about knowing distance from ring to star though. Ha.
Edited by starman, : No reason given.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 597 by RAZD, posted 11-05-2017 1:37 PM RAZD has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 599 by RAZD, posted 11-05-2017 3:35 PM starman has replied

  
starman
Inactive Member


Message 600 of 948 (823095)
11-06-2017 1:44 AM
Reply to: Message 599 by RAZD
11-05-2017 3:35 PM


Re: A bridge to the stars
quote:
Sadly, ignorance is not an argument, it is just ignorance.
One example of a base line for parallax measurement is the distance earth moves in six months. That is a huge distance. It involves a big piece of spacetime. If you admit time exists here, then time exists with the space. Not sure what you are missing here.
Sadly, ignorance is not an argument, it is just ignorance.
Go ahead and play your little game about knowing distance from ring to star though. Ha.
quote:
Okay, ... I like to call the game star checkers:
It's a board game with two pieces, their movement is determined by the throw of a di, both move the amount shown on the di.
One takes a path from the star to the earth, the other takes a detour to the ring and then to the earth
Click on the image to enlarge it.
The ring is shown highly eccentric to show that we use the major axis as the diameter of the ring, the eccentricity is caused by the ring tilting away from a perfectly perpendicular plane to our line of sight. We KNOW the ring is actually circular because the whole ring lit up at the same time.
Each of the three lines is composed of dots with the exact same spacing from dot to dot, they are distance increments.
We start with both playing pieces at the star and throw the di, then move both pieces the amount of dots shown on the di, which varies from 1 to 6 in a random pattern.
Player piece A moves along the line from the star (lower left) to the earth (at the right)
Player piece B moves along the lines from the star to the ring (upper left) and then from the ring to the earth without stopping at the ring.
When player piece A reaches the earth we are in the modern (1987) era with consistent speed of light and travel distances ...
so we keep repeating the last distance thrown on the di until player piece B reaches the earth.
The difference in time between player piece A reaching the earth and player piece B reaching the earth is then multiplied by the modern (1987) era speed of life both are experiencing gives us an accurate measure of the distance from the star to the ring.
This time is known. This calculation of the distance between the star and the ring is thus a known fact.
Thank you for playing.
The speed of anything around the SN is not known unless the distance to the SN is known. To get that distance you cannot assume that a slice of time and space in the solar system is equal to a slice of time and space where the stars are!
For your checker game, we know that exists IN our space and time so we CAN determine size and distances.

My Blog where comments and debate are welcome
https://mountaintwentyone.wixsite.com/home/blog

This message is a reply to:
 Message 599 by RAZD, posted 11-05-2017 3:35 PM RAZD has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 601 by RAZD, posted 11-06-2017 7:30 AM starman has replied

  
starman
Inactive Member


Message 602 of 948 (823130)
11-06-2017 12:54 PM
Reply to: Message 601 by RAZD
11-06-2017 7:30 AM


Re: A bridge to the stars
You can't use anything for distance. Gong! To do so assumes time exists and space equally all the way. Your game fails.

My Blog where comments and debate are welcome
https://mountaintwentyone.wixsite.com/home/blog

This message is a reply to:
 Message 601 by RAZD, posted 11-06-2017 7:30 AM RAZD has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 603 by RAZD, posted 11-06-2017 2:22 PM starman has replied
 Message 604 by Taq, posted 11-06-2017 3:10 PM starman has replied
 Message 606 by RAZD, posted 11-07-2017 7:06 AM starman has replied
 Message 608 by Stile, posted 11-07-2017 10:37 AM starman has replied

  
starman
Inactive Member


Message 609 of 948 (823193)
11-07-2017 3:51 PM
Reply to: Message 604 by Taq
11-06-2017 3:10 PM


Re: A bridge to the stars
All streets are on earth. Here we know distances.

My Blog where comments and debate are welcome
https://mountaintwentyone.wixsite.com/home/blog

This message is a reply to:
 Message 604 by Taq, posted 11-06-2017 3:10 PM Taq has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 620 by Taq, posted 11-08-2017 1:04 PM starman has replied

  
starman
Inactive Member


Message 610 of 948 (823194)
11-07-2017 3:53 PM
Reply to: Message 603 by RAZD
11-06-2017 2:22 PM


Re: Starman's total absence of argument via empty assertions
The demonstration is that you could not establish that space and time as we know them are homogeneous in the universe. Therefore no distances in the far universe can be determined from here!

My Blog where comments and debate are welcome
https://mountaintwentyone.wixsite.com/home/blog

This message is a reply to:
 Message 603 by RAZD, posted 11-06-2017 2:22 PM RAZD has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 615 by RAZD, posted 11-07-2017 5:22 PM starman has replied

  
starman
Inactive Member


Message 611 of 948 (823195)
11-07-2017 3:54 PM
Reply to: Message 605 by RAZD
11-06-2017 3:38 PM


Re: A bridge to the stars
Hey, science never knew the rings already supposed existed before the event!! They predicted a black hole...sorry none showed up.

My Blog where comments and debate are welcome
https://mountaintwentyone.wixsite.com/home/blog

This message is a reply to:
 Message 605 by RAZD, posted 11-06-2017 3:38 PM RAZD has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 616 by RAZD, posted 11-07-2017 5:23 PM starman has replied

  
starman
Inactive Member


Message 612 of 948 (823196)
11-07-2017 3:55 PM
Reply to: Message 606 by RAZD
11-07-2017 7:06 AM


Re: Another starman failure
That does not apply to a little star in far off space that we don't know the distance to.

My Blog where comments and debate are welcome
https://mountaintwentyone.wixsite.com/home/blog

This message is a reply to:
 Message 606 by RAZD, posted 11-07-2017 7:06 AM RAZD has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 617 by RAZD, posted 11-07-2017 5:25 PM starman has replied

  
starman
Inactive Member


Message 613 of 948 (823197)
11-07-2017 3:56 PM
Reply to: Message 607 by Stile
11-07-2017 10:18 AM


Re: A bridge to the stars
Satellites have not gone out of the solar system and area. Gong!

My Blog where comments and debate are welcome
https://mountaintwentyone.wixsite.com/home/blog

This message is a reply to:
 Message 607 by Stile, posted 11-07-2017 10:18 AM Stile has seen this message but not replied

  
starman
Inactive Member


Message 614 of 948 (823198)
11-07-2017 4:05 PM
Reply to: Message 608 by Stile
11-07-2017 10:37 AM


Re: A bridge to the stars
quote:
This point of reasoning is navely correct.
It is possible that space and time exist differently at another place in the universe.
As possible as it is that space and time exist differently at your house while you're at work.
But everything we're able to test/measure/check shows that space and time exist pretty much the same at your house and your work regardless of where you are.
Except you can't see or measure time. Can you?
quote:
Of course it can.
And the first person to show that it is different, will get a Nobel Prize.
I think Jesus will show us one day, and the nobel nonsense will be extinct.
quote:
They are equally as likely, equally as verified, and equally as assumed.
You are in no position to say what is likely about time in the far unknown universe.
quote:
Progress is made basing our assumptions and tests on our continuing growth of knowledge.
No progress has been made determining if time exists in the far universe, it has been assumed.
quote:
We do not, ever, stop and study possible issues just because some guy on the internet writes a few sentences without any tests or measurements to back up their ideas.
Don't blame us if you are too busy to stop and actually think.
quote:
Such a method would never make progress as there's always some loon thinking they know things about reality that they cannot support.
Don't worry about it, you will never be able to find out on your own anyhow.
quote:
If they are correct, the normal method will identify it well enough (and better than the loon anyway) whenever it runs into it.
Their normal is too small to be able to punch thier way out of the fishbowl.

My Blog where comments and debate are welcome
https://mountaintwentyone.wixsite.com/home/blog

This message is a reply to:
 Message 608 by Stile, posted 11-07-2017 10:37 AM Stile has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 618 by Stile, posted 11-08-2017 9:00 AM starman has replied
 Message 631 by Phat, posted 11-09-2017 9:58 AM starman has replied

  
starman
Inactive Member


Message 621 of 948 (823296)
11-08-2017 8:13 PM
Reply to: Message 620 by Taq
11-08-2017 1:04 PM


Re: A bridge to the stars
You can't see time or that it exists the same as here. You only assumed a bunch of things and believed.

My Blog where comments and debate are welcome
https://mountaintwentyone.wixsite.com/home/blog

This message is a reply to:
 Message 620 by Taq, posted 11-08-2017 1:04 PM Taq has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 636 by Taq, posted 11-09-2017 12:33 PM starman has replied

  
starman
Inactive Member


Message 622 of 948 (823297)
11-08-2017 8:14 PM
Reply to: Message 619 by RAZD
11-08-2017 9:53 AM


Re: the scientific method
We can make stuff on the space station. Just because there are some elements where stars are does not mean any of your fables are true.

My Blog where comments and debate are welcome
https://mountaintwentyone.wixsite.com/home/blog

This message is a reply to:
 Message 619 by RAZD, posted 11-08-2017 9:53 AM RAZD has seen this message but not replied

  
starman
Inactive Member


Message 623 of 948 (823298)
11-08-2017 8:16 PM
Reply to: Message 618 by Stile
11-08-2017 9:00 AM


Re: A bridge to the stars
You cannot compare computers to the far past nature on earth, or to unknown deep space. Irrelevant.

My Blog where comments and debate are welcome
https://mountaintwentyone.wixsite.com/home/blog

This message is a reply to:
 Message 618 by Stile, posted 11-08-2017 9:00 AM Stile has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 635 by Stile, posted 11-09-2017 11:46 AM starman has replied

  
starman
Inactive Member


Message 624 of 948 (823299)
11-08-2017 8:16 PM
Reply to: Message 617 by RAZD
11-07-2017 5:25 PM


Re: Another starman failure
Showing science prophesied falsely is quite relevant.

My Blog where comments and debate are welcome
https://mountaintwentyone.wixsite.com/home/blog

This message is a reply to:
 Message 617 by RAZD, posted 11-07-2017 5:25 PM RAZD has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 629 by RAZD, posted 11-09-2017 8:34 AM starman has not replied

  
Newer Topic | Older Topic
Jump to:


Copyright 2001-2023 by EvC Forum, All Rights Reserved

™ Version 4.2
Innovative software from Qwixotic © 2024