In the begining...... nothing.... unless infinite past.

firstly there was always something... why do people always assume that god has been there from the beggining and that it must have been created for it to exist? who says the universe hasnt been here continuously collapsing and reforming forever?

fair enough. nothing cant create something. i see that point. yet there really is no other alternative, except that a being created it, which is hard to decipher because if god created the universe, what was he doing for an infinite amount of time before he created the universe? i guess either way you look at it, there was always something there

you ask "if god created the universe, what was he doing for an infinite amount of time " ... but time is a propertiy of our universe .. before the universe there was no TIME ... also there was no space .. not simple void or vacum but no SPACE .. our fundemental laws of physics coud not work because there was no Universe for them to work in .unless i misread your argument, you seem to imply that god can only exist within energy (or a derivative of energy, matter). There is no reason why god cannot exist within a void, and yes if nothing exists it is a void. Why is a void dark? because there is nothing for light to reflect off, and it has a lack of light hence the dark 'colour'. you seem to think that a void is an object, when it is simply a description in our language of 'nothingness'.you go on to say "i guess either way you look at it, there was always something there " .. but there is no THEREby this i meant that either an atom or god. There is always a THERE, something is not a derivative of nothing.even the word nothing implies this. 'Nothing' is a description of a lack of anything.This message has been edited by generaljoe, 03-29-2006 12:16 AM