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Author Topic:   A question concerning Evolution
Percy
Member
Posts: 22499
From: New Hampshire
Joined: 12-23-2000
Member Rating: 4.9


Message 31 of 38 (79455)
01-19-2004 4:14 PM
Reply to: Message 30 by Eta_Carinae
01-19-2004 4:03 PM


Re: Ok - this is going to seem like a crappy answer BUT
The expansion of spacetime is a global cosmological solution to a FLRW metric. It is not local.
Will I understand this once I know what FLRW means?
Locally we solve GR by say the Schwarzchild solution. There is no expansion of spacetime here.
So the common answer is that your two objects are not expanding away from each other.
Most descriptions of the Big Bang and inflation that I've read describe the expansion of space as causing greatly increased separation of regions of space, including the matter resident in that space. Did I misunderstand?
--Percy

This message is a reply to:
 Message 30 by Eta_Carinae, posted 01-19-2004 4:03 PM Eta_Carinae has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 32 by Eta_Carinae, posted 01-19-2004 4:25 PM Percy has replied

  
Eta_Carinae
Member (Idle past 4402 days)
Posts: 547
From: US
Joined: 11-15-2003


Message 32 of 38 (79457)
01-19-2004 4:25 PM
Reply to: Message 31 by Percy
01-19-2004 4:14 PM


More info
I knew someone addressed issues like this in a paper I read once. I just found it. It is here:
http://arxiv.org/PS_cache/astro-ph/pdf/9803/9803097.pdf
FLRW = Friedmann - Lemaitre Robertson Walker universe.
Friedmann-Lemaitre is the common GR equation describing the dynamic evolution of a perfect fluid approx. to the universe. Roberston-Walker is the metric describing the spacetime of a homogeneous isotropic universe of this fluid. It is the common model used.
Yes - when you are talking about inflation the expansion is very rapid and the energy for this is provided by the quantum field driving the expansion. Where this field comes (and exactly what form it takes)from is unknown
Note that I answered you earlier in terms of a present epoch - i.e. applying standard GR solutions. Inflation is something altogether different.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 31 by Percy, posted 01-19-2004 4:14 PM Percy has replied

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 Message 33 by Percy, posted 01-19-2004 5:35 PM Eta_Carinae has replied

  
Percy
Member
Posts: 22499
From: New Hampshire
Joined: 12-23-2000
Member Rating: 4.9


Message 33 of 38 (79482)
01-19-2004 5:35 PM
Reply to: Message 32 by Eta_Carinae
01-19-2004 4:25 PM


Re: More info
Note that I answered you earlier in terms of a present epoch - i.e. applying standard GR solutions. Inflation is something altogether different.
So inflation isn't just a more rapid manifestation of the same phenomena as the current expansion of space? In other words, we know that the dark energy thought to be causing the current expansion is a different beast altogether from the quantum field that drove inflation? How do we know the current expansion is caused by dark energy and not a quantum field?
--Percy

This message is a reply to:
 Message 32 by Eta_Carinae, posted 01-19-2004 4:25 PM Eta_Carinae has replied

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 Message 34 by Eta_Carinae, posted 01-19-2004 5:39 PM Percy has not replied

  
Eta_Carinae
Member (Idle past 4402 days)
Posts: 547
From: US
Joined: 11-15-2003


Message 34 of 38 (79484)
01-19-2004 5:39 PM
Reply to: Message 33 by Percy
01-19-2004 5:35 PM


Re: More info
Correct inflation is not the same as the current expansion.
The dark energy is an unknown. There are quantum field models and of course the cosmological constant but we don't really know what it is.

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 Message 35 by RingoKid, posted 01-22-2004 9:07 PM Eta_Carinae has not replied

  
RingoKid
Inactive Member


Message 35 of 38 (80195)
01-22-2004 9:07 PM
Reply to: Message 34 by Eta_Carinae
01-19-2004 5:39 PM


Re: More info
cruising the net and found this...
"With many there tends to be a presupposition that God can be known by human beings. This is a proposition that is not altogether self-evident, and in fact on that is problematic in both Eastern and Western religious thought. For God is not simply one being among other beings, even if God is conceived of as the "supreme being," for "supreme" asserts merely a quantitative difference between God and the world. But God is rather qualitatively different from any and all finite being. God is the "totally other," and various images have been used to try to express this qualitative difference, however inadequately. God is said to be no a being, but the source and ground of being, or God is the horizon within which all beings exist, or, as this latter image comes to expression in scripture: "In him we live and move and have our being" Acts 17:28.
If the reality of God is qualitatively different from all other reality, then it follows that God must be known in a way qualitatively different from our knowledge of all other realities. Otherwise, in our knowledge God would be reduced to the level of these other realities and what we would be knowing would not really be God, but a human construct, an idol. If knowing finite realities is a process of grasping or comprehending them, God must be known rather as that which lies beyond all of our capacities to comprehend and grasp. God is known precisely as what we cannot comprehend, as the incomprehensible, as the "known unknown," as mystery. Indeed, it is easy enough to get a sense that all of our knowing in the sense of what we comprehend is but a little island in a vast sea of the unknown, that if we push all of our most limpid clarities far enough they trail off into obscurity, and that the more we know the more we realize how little we know. Our sense of mystery, and with it our sense of awe and wonder, does not decrease as our knowledge increases, but rather increases. Human beings are never far from mystery, the mystery that in Christian terms we call "God," and "awareness" is the process by which we get in touch with this reality.
The reality of God lies beyond all human ideas, concepts, and language, and if we forget this our God-talk can degenerate into idol (and idle) talk, however sublime and religious it might be. "
...maybe once you find your dark energy source you can ask it if it prefers to be called GOD

This message is a reply to:
 Message 34 by Eta_Carinae, posted 01-19-2004 5:39 PM Eta_Carinae has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 36 by NosyNed, posted 01-22-2004 10:10 PM RingoKid has replied

  
NosyNed
Member
Posts: 9004
From: Canada
Joined: 04-04-2003


Message 36 of 38 (80198)
01-22-2004 10:10 PM
Reply to: Message 35 by RingoKid
01-22-2004 9:07 PM


Theology
...maybe once you find your dark energy source you can ask it if it prefers to be called GOD
However utterly mad the supposed science that we get posted here, somehow the theological ideas manage to top it.

Common sense isn't

This message is a reply to:
 Message 35 by RingoKid, posted 01-22-2004 9:07 PM RingoKid has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 37 by RingoKid, posted 01-23-2004 12:22 AM NosyNed has replied

  
RingoKid
Inactive Member


Message 37 of 38 (80228)
01-23-2004 12:22 AM
Reply to: Message 36 by NosyNed
01-22-2004 10:10 PM


Re: Theology
it's a mad mad world and i'm just the messenger...
...please don't shoot before asking questions

This message is a reply to:
 Message 36 by NosyNed, posted 01-22-2004 10:10 PM NosyNed has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 38 by NosyNed, posted 01-23-2004 1:01 AM RingoKid has not replied

  
NosyNed
Member
Posts: 9004
From: Canada
Joined: 04-04-2003


Message 38 of 38 (80237)
01-23-2004 1:01 AM
Reply to: Message 37 by RingoKid
01-23-2004 12:22 AM


Re: Theology
Then I have no clue what you are talking about.

Common sense isn't

This message is a reply to:
 Message 37 by RingoKid, posted 01-23-2004 12:22 AM RingoKid has not replied

  
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