Not having been involved in this thread until now, and having no real desire to get further involved without reading further, I thought I would offer this observation on the question of "Ex Nihilo" creation. There are several verses that clearly reveal the "Ex Nihilo" idea of creation, John 1:3. The Greek word translated "made" is "Ginomai(ghin'-om-ahee)" and means "cause to be", "to become", "come into being", and while some may choose to argue that this can also mean to create or make from something already existing, it is an inaccurate definition of the term and will not fit in with the entire context of the preceding and following verses. "Bara'(baw-raw') and "Asah(aw-saw')" are two words from Genesis that are used in describing the act of creation. One carries the clear distinction of making something from nothing, while the other carries the clear distinction of making something from something already having been created. There is no doubt that scripture clearly states the doctrine of Ex Nihilo is a legitimate doctrine. However, The Bible is not a book designed to have the answers to every possible question that may arise in the mind of man. It is a book about the desired interaction between a Creator and His creation, with man as a primary focal point of that revelation. It was never meant to be construed as a science book, even though it contains scientific information that was available only through divine inspiritation and some of those scientific facts have only recently, (the past few hundred years), been able to be verified through scientific means. Science textbooks can reveal things of a spiritual nature, though they are not specifically designed to do so. The Bible can reveal things of a scientific nature, but it is not designed to be a revelation of all scientific thought and theory. They both serve a proper function if they are not stretched beyond their design or intent. Science and Religion were never meant to dovetail. Any attempts to do so will undoubtedly fail. This does not mean religion has no place in the study and exploration of science or that science has no place in the study and exploration of religion.On the contrary, science and religion can compliment each other if approached from the proper perspectives of both fields.
quote:Originally posted by Jet: It was never meant to be construed as a science book, even though it contains scientific information that was available only through divine inspiritation and some of those scientific facts have only recently, (the past few hundred years), been able to be verified through scientific means...The Bible can reveal things of a scientific nature.
Can you reveal some scientific information contained in the bible that was available 'only through divine inspiration' and has only been recently verified through scientific means? Can you reveal ANYthing of a scientific nature the bible has revealed? I have read it several times and found nothing that remotely fits this description.
Consider the following passage from the book of Job:
"Can you bind the chains of the Pleiades? Can you loose the chords of Orion?" Job 38:31
------------------ "KNOWLEDGE IS POWER! FEED YOUR BRAIN!"
"For the scientist who has lived by faith in the power of his reason, the story ends like a bad dream. He has scaled the mountains of ignorance; he is about to conquer the highest peak; as he pulls himself over the final rock, he is greeted by a small band of theologians, who have been sitting there for centuries."
While I am willing to declare that they both have many qualifications, I found no information on either Dr. Bert Thompson or Dr. Brad Harrub that would lead me to the conclusion that their opinions on the matter should outweigh numerous Hebrew scholars who totally disagree with their assertions on the exact same meaning of different Hebrew words. Their assertions, and yours, would be no more correct than if I were to assert that my saying, "I birthed a baby boy" (indicating that I personally gave birth to my son), carries the exact same meaning as my saying, "I had a baby boy" (indicating that my wife had given birth to our son). Words mean things and specific words have specific meanings. I guess we will have to agree to disagree on this issue.
------------------ "KNOWLEDGE IS POWER! FEED YOUR BRAIN!".....................Jet
"The scientist's pursuit of the past ends in the moment of creation. This is an exceedingly strange development, unexpected by all but the theologians. Now we would like to pursue that inquiry farther back in time, but the barrier to further progress seems insurmountable.
It is not a matter of another year, another decade of work, another measurement, or another theory; at this moment it seems as though science will never be able to raise the curtain on the mystery of creation.
For the scientist who has lived by his faith in the power of reason, the story ends like a bad dream. He has scaled the mountains of ignorance; he is about to conquer the highest peak; as he pulls himself over the final rock, he is greeted by a band of theologians who have been sitting there for centuries."
Originally posted by doctrbill: Where is it the scripture "clearly states" that the doctrine of ex nihilo creation is "legitimate"? (chapter and verse please)
***After reading this portion of your post, I could not help but wonder if you actually read my entire post, as the information you request was provided in the very post to which you have responded.***Jet
doctrbill: You have been shown where it clearly states otherwise.
***I have? Please refresh my memory. In what post was I shown this?***Jet
doctrbill: Were humans spoken into existence (ex nihilo) by command of God on the sixth day? Or was the man made from mud and the woman made later from a piece of the man?
***Again, I must wonder if you actually read my entire post. You ask questions that were answered in the very post to which you have responded. "In the beginning God "created" the heavens and the earth."[Genesis 1:1] The word translated here as created is a clear indication of God creating Ex Nihilo. "And God "formed" man of the dust of the ground..."[Genesis 2:8] Again, here is a clear indication of God using existing material in His acts of creation. Now I accept the fact that this line of thinking is not accepted by all Bible scholars, and that I must rely, in part, on commentary from some, while rejecting commentary from others. This is my personal choice, and, based upon my own personal studies of the scriptures, I believe that I have made the correct choice. If you choose to reject that line of thinking, and choose to accept other commentary, I have no problem with that. Agree to disagree.***
------------------ “As we survey all the evidence, the thought insistently arises that some supernatural agency - or, rather, Agency - must be involved. Is it possible that suddenly, without intending to, we have stumbled upon scientific proof of the existence of a Supreme Being? Was it God who stepped in and so providentially crafted the cosmos for our benefit?”